PDA

View Full Version : Shanahan named President of Hockey Operations



Pages : [1] 2

MapleLeafBlueJayBoy
04-10-2014, 06:46 PM
Damien Cox is reporting that Shanahan to the Leafs is done.

TorontoStar ‏@TorontoStar 20m
#breaking #Leafs #nhl Brendan Shanahan to be named president of the Maple Leafs, Damien Cox reports. http://on.thestar.com/1hmNapj

Damien Cox ‏@DamoSpin 18m
Shanahan expected to leave NHL post immediately and join Leafs

Damien Cox ‏@DamoSpin 6m
Just guessing, but with Shanahan leaving ASAP, would expect either Mike Murphy or Kris King to take on NHL discipline job for playoffs.

trujaysfan
04-10-2014, 06:49 PM
President not just president of hockey ops.... will be involved in business side as well.

soco22
04-10-2014, 06:50 PM
Wonder if we will also hire a prez of hockey ops too

Leafyblue
04-10-2014, 06:51 PM
Shanny is a genius. He suspended Clarkson and wasn't even on payroll yet.

Metalleaf
04-10-2014, 06:52 PM
Shanahan is another Mimico guy, wonder if he chats with Clarkson upon arrival.

Rumpleforeskin
04-10-2014, 06:52 PM
President not just president of hockey ops.... will be involved in business side as well.

Gretzky?

trujaysfan
04-10-2014, 06:54 PM
Shanahan is another Mimico guy, wonder if he chats with Clarkson upon arrival.

hopefully that chat includes a tire iron to the knee

Metalleaf
04-10-2014, 06:57 PM
hopefully that chat includes a tier iron to the knee

God tier iron?

Wayward DP
04-10-2014, 06:57 PM
Maybe Clarkson will retire? If he's truly a Leafs fan...

Metalleaf
04-10-2014, 06:59 PM
Bob McKenzie
As reported by @TorontoStar, can confirm Brendan Shanahan finalizing arrangements to leave NHL to take executive pos'n with Maple Leafs.

GEEMAN
04-10-2014, 07:00 PM
President not just president of hockey ops.... will be involved in business side as well.

heads will roll , interesting offseason

MapleLeafBlueJayBoy
04-10-2014, 07:03 PM
No way Nonis and Carlyle stay now. Dump them all and start with a new front office vision to reshape this team. Get rid of the Burke regime.

Killer93
04-10-2014, 07:04 PM
Who do you replace them with is the big question? Top of my list would be Bob Nicholson

Metalleaf
04-10-2014, 07:04 PM
No way Nonis and Carlyle stay now. Dump them all and start with a new front office vision to reshape this team. Get rid of the Burke regime.

Carlyle is done, Nonis might keep his head for one more season.

Metalleaf
04-10-2014, 07:05 PM
Who do you replace them with is the big question? Top of my list would be Bob Nicholson

GM? Hextall or Benning.

Coach? Laviolette/Boucher...

trujaysfan
04-10-2014, 07:10 PM
With the announcement likely coming monday (from the cox article) and our season ending on saturday I wonder if they are going to make it a big announcement by combining GM/Coach firings as well. TL really making a statement if he does that.

MapleLeafBlueJayBoy
04-10-2014, 07:11 PM
Let Shanny hire his own people.

Metalleaf
04-10-2014, 07:12 PM
With the announcement likely coming monday (from the cox article) and our season ending on saturday I wonder if they are going to make it a big announcement by combining GM/Coach firings as well. TL really making a statement if he does that.

TL will likely leave it to Shanahan.

Metalleaf
04-10-2014, 07:12 PM
Just remembered that Nonis signed a 5 year extension last summer, he might survive the chopping block this year.

MapleLeafBlueJayBoy
04-10-2014, 07:14 PM
By: Damien Cox Sports Columnist, Published on Thu Apr 10 2014

The intriguing concept of Brendan Shanahan joining the Maple Leafs has been rattling around the restless mind of Tim Leiweke for months.


But after an explosion of speculation from a variety of media outlets in the past 48 hours forced the idea to be fast-tracked, that concept is about to turn into reality.


Shanahan, according to multiple sources, will resign his position as the NHL’s director of player safety as early as Friday and immediately join the Leafs this weekend as the team closes out a disappointing season.


While his precise job could not be confirmed, sources suggest the Hall of Fame winger will likely be named president of the Leafs hockey club, not only president of hockey operations.


A formal press conference to announce his hiring could happen as early as Monday in Leiweke’s latest eye-popping maneuver.


Shanahan has been toying with the idea of joining the Leafs for weeks. His preference, it’s believed, would have been to stay in his current job until the end of the Stanley Cup final in June.


However, it is unlikely commissioner Gary Bettman, even with the Leafs not involved in the 2014 Stanley Cup playoffs, was comfortable with Shanahan remaining on the job if the hockey world knew he was soon going to take an executive position with a member club.


When rumours about Shanahan and the Leafs began to fly on Wednesday, Leiweke apparently believed he had to act immediately and Bettman reluctantly agreed.


There has been much conjecture about what role the 45-year-old Shanahan would have, particularly after another ex-star, Trevor Linden, was named president of hockey operations of the Vancouver Canucks.


However, it’s believed Shanahan will have an even more senior role that will extend beyond over-seeing general manager Dave Nonis and the hockey department. Being named president, as opposed to president of hockey operations, would mean he would be involved in other business and league matters, such as the upcoming 100th anniversary of the Leafs.


He may even be groomed to become the heir apparent to Leiweke as CEO of the entire MLSE sports conglomerate.


Clearly, the top priority of his new assignment, given the recent words of Leiweke, will be to try and transform the culture of the Leafs into that of a winning, successful hockey club. Leiweke has already created positive change with the NBA’s Raptors and Toronto FC, both also owned by Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment, and given the shocking collapse of the Leafs down the stretch, he knew he had to act now.


After blowing a three-goal lead in the third period of Game 7 of their first-round playoff series with Boston last spring, over the past month Randy Carlyle’s club has again stumbled badly and will miss the playoffs for the eighth time in the past nine seasons.


Leiweke’s belief is that Shanahan’s long NHL career and multiple championships — he’s a member of the elite Triple Gold Club for winning Olympic gold, a world championship and a Stanley Cup — will provide a blast of focus and ambition for a team that hasn’t won a Cup since 1967 and hasn’t been to a conference final since 2002.


It’s a gamble by Leiweke, given Shanahan’s absence of NHL executive experience. That said, the former power forward has three Cup rings, he knows the league extremely well and has developed a thick hide while handing down NHL suspensions over the past three seasons.


Shanahan has close ties to the Detroit Red Wings organization, which has graduated several former players and front office types to top jobs around the NHL. Former Wings captain Steve Yzerman is GM of the Tampa Bay Lightning, former assistant GM Jim Nill is in his first season as GM of the Dallas Stars and former Detroit assistant coach Paul MacLean is head coach of the Ottawa Senators.


Shanahan, a native of Mimico, never played for the Leafs, of course. Last spring, he flirted with the notion of joining the Calgary Flames in a senior executive position and was initially approached about taking a position with the Leafs last fall.


Assuming he quits now, the league will likely to turn to either Mike Murphy or Kris King to rule on discipline and suspensions during the playoffs.


Leiweke is convinced that while the hockey club needs to make changes on its roster, a larger overhaul is necessary and a new philosophy of excellence is required.


While the Leafs have brought in a wide variety of big hockey names over the past quarter century, hiring Shanahan is most similar to the hiring of another executive neophyte, Hall of Fame goaltender Ken Dryden in 1997.


Dryden led the Leafs to two Final Four appearances and engineered the move from the Western Conference to the Eastern Conference.


Like Shanahan, Dryden had no experience running an NHL team, or any hockey club at any level. That, however, allowed him to think outside the box and engineer significant moves like the hiring of Pat Quinn as head coach and the signing of free agent goaltender Curtis Joseph.


What’s clear, given the events of last spring and the past month, is that the Leafs need either a new leadership group or another layer of leadership to support the current administration and roster.


Shanahan immediately becomes the face of the franchise, a symbol of hope for Leaf Nation that mediocrity will soon turn into a much higher level of competitiveness.


He scored 656 career goals. He won those Cups. He’s itching to help his hometown team win and isn’t afraid of the daunting challenge.


If he brings a little luck of the Irish with him, he might even pull it off.


http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey/2014/04/10/brendan_shanahan_to_be_named_president_of_maple_le afs_cox.html#

BeLeafer
04-10-2014, 07:42 PM
Sure hope he's better at running a hockey team than doling out discipline.

Gotta figure that Nonis' days are numbered.

Metalleaf
04-10-2014, 07:43 PM
Sure hope he's better at running a hockey team than doling out discipline.

Gotta figure that Nonis' days are numbered.

At the very least he can deal with endless criticism fairly well.

trujaysfan
04-10-2014, 07:43 PM
maybe we will get a video explanation about all roster moves/trades/signings etc

BeLeafer
04-10-2014, 07:46 PM
At the very least he can deal with endless criticism fairly well.

Not a bad point and it is important to this role. Of course, being the NHL thug will seem like a relative walk in the park.

leafman101
04-10-2014, 07:49 PM
Even more importantly in that role he had to deal with and built relationships with all of the GMs in the league. And from the sounds of it they all respect him.

Plus before he was disciplinarian he was VP of Hockey and Business Development for a few years where they just kind of let him do a bit of everything to learn. He has been training for this for years.

Cox even reported he may be groomed to replace Lieweke. He's a very bright and motivated guy. This isn't just some Linden/Lafontaine kind of PR hiring.

MapleLeafBlueJayBoy
04-10-2014, 07:51 PM
Just remembered that Nonis signed a 5 year extension last summer, he might survive the chopping block this year.

I don't think it really matters in the grand scheme of things. If Shanny doesn't want to work with him, he won't have to work with him.

Metalleaf
04-10-2014, 07:54 PM
Even more importantly in that role he had to deal with and built relationships with all of the GMs in the league. And from the sounds of it they all respect him.

Plus before he was disciplinarian he was VP of Hockey and Business Development for a few years where they just kind of let him do a bit of everything to learn. He has been training for this for years.

Cox even reported he may be groomed to replace Lieweke. He's a very bright and motivated guy. This isn't just some Linden/Lafontaine kind of PR hiring.

Well yeah, Shanny's only connection to the era is he's from here, but he never played in Leafs uni nor is he a fan favourite, plus he won't deal with prospective meddling in deals like what Lafontaine dealt with in Buffalo.

Metalleaf
04-10-2014, 08:05 PM
Darren Dreger
In addition to title of President of the Maple Leafs, Shanahan is expected to be named an alternate governor. Confirmation of hire Friday.

hockeylover
04-10-2014, 08:07 PM
I'm pretty pleased with this move.

I'd like to see him just clean house now and bring in his staff.

Metalleaf
04-10-2014, 08:12 PM
I'm pretty pleased with this move.

I'd like to see him just clean house now and bring in his staff.

I think Nonis stays, but Poulin, coaching staff, et al. will likely be gone.

Volcanologist
04-10-2014, 08:13 PM
I don't see the point in that.

Then again, I didn't see the point in firing Burke yet leaving the entire rest of the structure intact either.

Metalleaf
04-10-2014, 08:15 PM
steve simmons
Don't expect Dave Nonis to be replaced in the hiring of Shanahan. The two are expected to work together.

BeLeafer
04-10-2014, 08:16 PM
I'll be surprised if Nonis et al are still around by June. 101 raises a good point ... he'll have lots of connections to find a good executive team.

BeLeafer
04-10-2014, 08:16 PM
steve simmons
Don't expect Dave Nonis to be replaced in the hiring of Shanahan. The two are expected to work together.

Well, that seals it. Hasta la vista, Dave.

Leafyblue
04-10-2014, 08:18 PM
Lame Duck GM for a year maybe.

Metalleaf
04-10-2014, 08:20 PM
Shanahan's deal will be for 5 years.

Metalleaf
04-10-2014, 08:24 PM
Rob Longley
Don't expect an immediate decision on Randy Carlyle. Shanahan will take a long, hard look at #Leafs before he makes a decision.

Boogmour
04-10-2014, 08:26 PM
Let the purge begin.

Leafyblue
04-10-2014, 08:28 PM
If I was Randy, I'd want an immediate decision. Who would want that hanging around their neck for a few months?

BeLeafer
04-10-2014, 08:32 PM
Rob Longley
Don't expect an immediate decision on Randy Carlyle. Shanahan will take a long, hard look at #Leafs before he makes a decision.

See ya later, Randy.

CTheBigPicture
04-10-2014, 09:46 PM
It's a sexy move but what does Brendan Shanahan know about building teams? How does yet another layer of management help this team?

I am not against the move but have plenty of questions. The name itself does nothing for me.

BeLeafer
04-10-2014, 09:51 PM
The jury is very much out. He has no management experience whatsoever. The key for a guy like that will be recruiting good talent.

CTheBigPicture
04-10-2014, 09:53 PM
The jury is very much out. He has no management experience whatsoever. The key for a guy like that will be recruiting good talent.

Agreed. Going all in for Stamkos?

BeLeafer
04-10-2014, 09:56 PM
heh, I meant executive talent, but I'd take Stamkos.

blacksheep
04-10-2014, 10:29 PM
Who wouldn't?
But I do agree. Shanny is a bright, big name that gives the appearance of a bold new direction, but he has no management experience. I'm not sure if this is going to be a smart move or just more flash. The verdict is still out.

Artnes
04-10-2014, 10:46 PM
Give him a cheque book and get to work. Respect and money will go a long way getting people to come board and he now has both

LeafGm
04-10-2014, 10:52 PM
I'm pretty ambivalent about this move. I sincerely hope this works out, but I don't really see what in Brendan Shanahan's life experience has prepared him for being the architect of a winning hockey organization. And if Nonis and the rest of Burke's headless management team stays, I'll have a tough time figuring out what the point of this hire was.

If they're really putting Shanahan in charge, he needs to put together his own front office. No more half measures.

KingTucker
04-10-2014, 11:21 PM
Nonis "expected" to be kept by Shanny as per Sportsnet. I'm thinking (hoping?) this is just a temporary thing while he settles in.

MapleLeafBlueJayBoy
04-10-2014, 11:30 PM
That is a huge mistake, I agree with GM, no half measures here. New front office. Kris Draper for GM?

Metalleaf
04-10-2014, 11:34 PM
Sakic was made President of Hockey Ops. with the Avs to take over a hapless Colorado franchise with a lame duck GM in Sherman, not only is Sherman still there but with a very few moves and the addition of Roy as coach the Avs went from last place to 2nd/3rd in the west. What does Sakic know about building teams?

Shanahan's experience isn't with team builiding, yet, but it is in business and that's what this is, a business, he understands the market, he understands the pressure.

Pronger84
04-10-2014, 11:48 PM
I still fully expect Nonis to be gone, maybe not this season for sure next... TL and crew are just looking for the GM with a big enough set of balls to run this show, have faith Nonis will be back working in Vancouver sooner rather then later.

JackBurton
04-11-2014, 02:15 AM
Just remembered that Nonis signed a 5 year extension last summer, he might survive the chopping block this year.

He might no doubt. But it would be more about him deserving another shot than money.

CTheBigPicture
04-11-2014, 07:33 AM
Sakic was made President of Hockey Ops. with the Avs to take over a hapless Colorado franchise with a lame duck GM in Sherman, not only is Sherman still there but with a very few moves and the addition of Roy as coach the Avs went from last place to 2nd/3rd in the west. What does Sakic know about building teams?

Shanahan's experience isn't with team builiding, yet, but it is in business and that's what this is, a business, he understands the market, he understands the pressure.

Well the main thing the Avs did was to do what it took to draft stars in the Centre position (included lots of losing). Moves that many of us have been screaming for, for years. Sakic then, unlike some other franchises, was savvy enough to change the culture as soon as he had the main horses.

Would be interesting to see how Shanny will go about this.

Hoss
04-11-2014, 09:00 AM
Retweeted by James Mirtle
Hope_Smoke ‏@Hope_Smoke 1h

Dreger "names that are circulating around Shanahan are Martin Lapointe, Kris Draper and Pete De Boer as a coach"


I know Draper's sister and a little of him. I don't want that effer near this team.

MindzEye
04-11-2014, 09:03 AM
You clearly have to elaborate

Hoss
04-11-2014, 09:26 AM
I don't know about him as a GM or whatever his name is being associated with, however his sister went to highschool with my wife, and we've hung out in our thirties. Kris Draper is a cheap ass. In his money hay day, for his sister's birthday, he'd give her is old redwings hocky bag. One year he gave her a card with $100 bucks??

I know that has nothing to do with hockey, but he's a cheap ass prick (notorious in my wife's old area, which is now the neighbourhood I work in)

soco22
04-11-2014, 09:30 AM
I don't know about him as a GM or whatever his name is being associated with, however his sister went to highschool with my wife, and we've hung out in our thirties. Kris Draper is a cheap ass. In his money hay day, for his sister's birthday, he'd give her is old redwings hocky bag. One year he gave her a card with $100 bucks??

I know that has nothing to do with hockey, but he's a cheap ass prick (notorious in my wife's old area, which is now the neighbourhood I work in)

Cheap people are cheap with their own money...not others.

And if we have a guy that thinks before handing out stupid ass contracts to shitty players...all the better.

My issue with former 4th line nhl guys is that they could have a soft spot for other grinders that have no business being in the league over the kids.

number17
04-11-2014, 09:41 AM
Shanny is more of a face and a name for the organization. It's good for the face of the franchise, but as President of MLSE (not just hockey operation, he is President of MLSE) he isn't gonna be involved in day to day hockey decision - which is good, cause Shanny has no management experience whatsoever. Zippo.

Now, as President, he does make the call on Leafs' GM. And I don't believe he will fire Nonis, nor do I believe he should.

Nonis took over as the GM just past summer, and for the most part, gave Carlyle the players he wanted to make the team a more successful team (Bolland, Clarkson, Bernier). The failure on the ice has more to do with Carlyle as a coach, than Nonis as a GM. I don't see any significant mistake Nonis has made as a GM since he took over a summer ago.

And all the words about Shanny bringing in Draper etc to be the coach ... make no mistake - if Shanny picks the Leafs' coach, then this organization is falling back to its old days of being dysfunctional. The GM picks his coach. It's Nonis's call to fire or keep Carlyle (and I am pretty sure he will fire him), and his call on who to hire as new coach. He may seek advices from Shanny, he may run his decision by Shanny, but if a GM can't hire his own coach then the Leafs aren't going anywhere as an organization.

TimHorton
04-11-2014, 09:50 AM
I don't see any significant mistake Nonis has made as a GM since he took over a summer ago

I'm sorry I don't care what your coach wants, that Clarkson signing is on the GM. And it's fireable all on it's own.

leafman101
04-11-2014, 09:55 AM
Good. Maybe if we had a cheapskate in the front office they wouldn't just fork over money to shitty players.

leafman101
04-11-2014, 09:57 AM
And all the words about Shanny bringing in Draper etc to be the coach ... make no mistake - if Shanny picks the Leafs' coach, then this organization is falling back to its old days of being dysfunctional. The GM picks his coach. It's Nonis's call to fire or keep Carlyle (and I am pretty sure he will fire him), and his call on who to hire as new coach. He may seek advices from Shanny, he may run his decision by Shanny, but if a GM can't hire his own coach then the Leafs aren't going anywhere as an organization.

Nah. Shanny is in charge here. He should have a major say in every major hiring of his organization and then let those guys do their jobs. Its his job to make sure the right guys are in place though.

It used to be the case in the NHL where president and GM were one in the same, but not anymore. These presidents of hockey ops run the organization and the GM is the day to day management level manager.

Metalleaf
04-11-2014, 10:11 AM
Shanahan is in charge, he wouldn't have joined otherwise. And what is this team building experience? People were cool with Gretzky and he barely has any.

leafman101
04-11-2014, 10:15 AM
Shanahan was a rising star in the hockey world And I don't just mean on the ice. As an executive. Since the day he retired he was groomed for this, and he has gained a ton of respect around the league.

He doesn't have player personnel experience, but thats also not his job. He'll have to hire people that do.

mbow30
04-11-2014, 10:18 AM
I don't see the point in complaining. We'll have to see how it plays out. It isn't like there is some clear, identifiable skillset as to what makes a good GM; maybe Shanny has it and maybe he doesn't. and remember, even very good GMs have put together some pretty bad teams.

Of course, everybody has to get a start at some point.

What I like about this hire as opposed to, say, Lafontaine or Linden, is that Shanahan has spent the past few years dealing with upper management and building up his credibility around the league. This isn't the Leafs reaching out for a flashy name -- this is the Maple Leafs bringing aboard a guy who has done all the right things to earn the position he's in.

number17
04-11-2014, 10:22 AM
Nah. Shanny is in charge here. He should have a major say in every major hiring of his organization and then let those guys do their jobs. Its his job to make sure the right guys are in place though.

It used to be the case in the NHL where president and GM were one in the same, but not anymore. These presidents of hockey ops run the organization and the GM is the day to day management level manager.Yes Shanny is in charge, so he picks his GM. That he has total authority over.

But when it comes to who to hire as coach or assistant coach, who to trade and who to keep, those are the GM's job. If Shanny wants that too then he should fire Nonis and name himself President AND GM.

And that would NOT be a good move anyways. Nonis is a seasoned GM in this league, a very respected figure and the guy who has as much as Burke to do with the Canucks' runs during the mid 2010's (before Gillis took over and screwed it all up). Shanny has no team building experience OTOH.

And, don't forget, Shanny is no named as President of hockey operations. He's the President of MLSE - meaning, he's also the president of TFC, Marlies, Raptors. It's more of a business function than day to day hockey decision maker. If he becomes the latter, then they have given him the wrong title.

mbow30
04-11-2014, 10:24 AM
He isn't the president of MLSE. And of course he should have discretion over the coach... just like Sakic in Colorado. Just like Davidson in Columbus (neither of whom are the GM).

leafman101
04-11-2014, 10:24 AM
No. He is president of the Leafs. He is in charge of everything Leafs. Including coaches.

The dynamics of hockey front offices have changed in recent years. Greg Sherman didn't hire Roy, but I don't think anyone is complaining there.

Metalleaf
04-11-2014, 10:31 AM
TL is MLSE President, Shanahan is Leafs President and Alt. Governor....

Volcanologist
04-11-2014, 10:38 AM
The Leafs always do stuff like this though, hiring people's bosses and doing everything back asswards. Should Carlyle and his staff be the only ones accountable for building a thin minor league system, a soft heartless team at the big league level that can't defend or battle for a puck, and sinking huge dollars into players that have underperformed drastically at various times?

If you're going to keep Nonis, maybe what Shanahan does instead is get rid of some of the other cooks in the kitchen and replace them with his guys. This can easily be explained away as adding the required new voices etc.

Nonis clearly needs to hear some different things besides "sign Clarkson, due to success we've had in the past with Komisarek and Armstrong" and "let's trade up to draft Tyler Biggs".

hockeylover
04-11-2014, 10:40 AM
I don't see any significant mistake Nonis has made as a GM since he took over a summer ago.

Clarkson is a massive, massive one.

leafman101
04-11-2014, 10:41 AM
Its not just about mistakes anyway. Its about making the team better.

He made them worse last offseason.

Bernier was a great addition, but TL was a driving force there.

I'd fire him, but if you take the ultimate decision making ability out of his hands he did a fine job as essentially GM under Burke. In fact a Shanahan/Nonis structure would be pretty similar to that.

Volcanologist
04-11-2014, 10:49 AM
Except that Shanahan is not even close to Brian Burke. he has no GM experience at all, so it's not really similar.

If Shanny is smart, and supposedly he is, he'll bring in hockey guys he trusts to work around Nonis as a buffer.

leafman101
04-11-2014, 10:55 AM
Have to do that regardless of his experience.

I have no issue giving a guy his first shot. Especially a guy who has earned it.

mbow30
04-11-2014, 10:55 AM
At some point, Burke didn't have any GM experience, either.

Meanwhile, this is still, at its essence, Burke's roster (with the exception of Bernier), which means that in five years of Burke (plus a half season) all was able to do was craft a cap-maxed bubble team.

Burke made some great moves to get some great pieces, but he really didn't build a great roster. And, truth be told, he has never really done that. The only time a Burke team didn't have a hole it was because he walked into a situation where the cupboard was full, the team had an elite goaltender, and the two sort of players you go balls out for were both available with the cap space and trade chips to acquire both.

Which isn't to undermine the job Burke did with the Ducks because he identified the need, the talent and (most importantly) executed. But his team in Vancouver was flawed and so was/is his Maple Leafs roster.

mbow30
04-11-2014, 10:57 AM
I also don't understand the aversion to giving a guy his first opportunity. Once again, the last time the Leafs did this (Dryden) it worked out.

Another thing to remember about Shanahan: he has had to become adept at dealing with the media, adversity and unhappy GMs/players. His position was about as difficult in that regard as any.

hockeylover
04-11-2014, 11:01 AM
I actually have no problem with giving a guy his first opportunity especially one that I think has paid his due first. But I'd like to see him bring in his own GM rather than keep Nonis, let him **** around with the roster and then just bring in his own guy in a year anyway.

leafman101
04-11-2014, 11:01 AM
Guys who are good rarely get fired. You'll never be able to bring in a Holland, Lamerello, Bowman, Shero or Chiarelli. Every once and a while you can find a Lombardi or Tallon that was unfairly canned. But other than that you are just cycling through guys who have failed before.

If you really want to find a great GM giving a guy his first shot is the easiest way to do it (not that it is easy).

Metalleaf
04-11-2014, 11:04 AM
People are worried about giving a guy a first shot because they have fears of JFJ. JFJ was the right idea but the wrong hire.

UWHabs
04-11-2014, 11:08 AM
Can't wait for Shanahan to give his video review of every trade made.

"Because of 1. Our need of a good centre, and 2. our depth on defense, we have decided to trade ..."

zeke
04-11-2014, 12:03 PM
Good hire.

Now replace randy with deboer, and nonis with a plush toy.

Volcanologist
04-11-2014, 12:05 PM
It doesn't sound like Shanahan will be running the hockey operation. This is at least in part a business position.

Nonis is still in charge.

Volcanologist
04-11-2014, 12:08 PM
People are worried about giving a guy a first shot because they have fears of JFJ. JFJ was the right idea but the wrong hire.

Not sure I agree with that.

I'd be fine giving Jim Benning a shot as GM, for example, because he's been part of a very successful organization and has worked his way up. I have no fears of him being JFJ, nor did I have fears of Jim Nill being JFJ when we had that opportunity.

Metalleaf
04-11-2014, 12:10 PM
It doesn't sound like Shanahan will be running the hockey operation. This is at least in part a business position.

Nonis is still in charge.

He's President of the Leafs he has a say on business and hockey decisions.

leafman101
04-11-2014, 12:11 PM
Shanahan is running everything. He is president of the Leafs. He is in charge, and he has been groomed for this since he retired.

He'll still have to hire hockey ops people like every organization. He's not going to do everything by himself. But the buck stops with him.

Volcanologist
04-11-2014, 12:12 PM
He's President of the Leafs he has a say on business and hockey decisions.

I should clarify that, should have written "day to day".

I would suggest that its our day to day decisions that need work, we're fine on the corporate/business side with Leiweke etc in charge.

MyNameIsJonas
04-11-2014, 12:13 PM
Is Doboer's contract up in Jersey?

leafman101
04-11-2014, 12:16 PM
But what is day to day? Like calling up Trevor Smith? Or signing David Clarkson? He'll certainly be involved in the latter.

Metalleaf
04-11-2014, 12:17 PM
The structure right now is Shanahan -> Poulin -> Nonis -> Carlyle.

Shanny will most likely bring in a new guy in the Hockey Ops(Poulin's job) position and it will cause a trickle down effect.

leafman101
04-11-2014, 12:20 PM
I also hope Shanahan "believes" in stats.

LeafGm
04-11-2014, 12:22 PM
The structure right now is Shanahan -> Poulin -> Nonis -> Carlyle.

Shanny will most likely bring in a new guy in the Hockey Ops(Poulin's job) position and it will cause a trickle down effect.
Poulin isn't Nonis's boss.

Metalleaf
04-11-2014, 12:27 PM
Which is why our FO is flawed...the Hockey Ops guy needs to understand the CBA as well as all of the other team development and administration. I don't think they've done a great job.

corksens
04-11-2014, 12:43 PM
Will Shanahan be as good of a capologist as JFJ?

Wayward DP
04-11-2014, 12:44 PM
I also don't understand the aversion to giving a guy his first opportunity. Once again, the last time the Leafs did this (Dryden) it worked out.

Another thing to remember about Shanahan: he has had to become adept at dealing with the media, adversity and unhappy GMs/players. His position was about as difficult in that regard as any.

We also gave JFJ his first shot as a GM...

Not that I'm opposed to this move, but I'll wait and see what he does before rendering any judgments.

leafman101
04-11-2014, 12:46 PM
You have to hire the right guy either way, whether he has experience or not. Nonis had experience. Fletcher had a ton of experience. Experience isn't a prerequisite.

Metalleaf
04-11-2014, 12:47 PM
We also gave JFJ his first shot as a GM...

Not that I'm opposed to this move, but I'll wait and see what he does before rendering any judgments.

Shanahan is not JFJ, people being wary of this move because Richard Peddie f-ed up is just silly.

Wayward DP
04-11-2014, 12:48 PM
Shanahan is not JFJ, people being wary of this move because Richard Peddie f-ed up is just silly.

I'm just not prepared to anoint him any sort of saviour quite yet.

He's certainly earned the opportunity, and obviously I hope he succeeds, but let's wait and see what he does first.

Bleedsblue&white
04-11-2014, 12:50 PM
I'm basing my faith on Leiweke, not Shanny. Hasn't disappointed yet.

Metalleaf
04-11-2014, 12:50 PM
Who has anointed him a saviour anyway? Most people who are behind this move believe he's a smart guy who understands where the game is and where its going. I don't see any reason to doubt that.

MindzEye
04-11-2014, 01:18 PM
I'm going to trust TL on this, he seems to have the magic touch when it comes to hiring executives. What Shanny as Pres does is open up some interesting names for front office positions with the leafs

Draper - Special Assistant to Holland, heavily involved in pro scouting, and amateur scouting. Used to evaluate signings and trade options since he joined the front office staff immediately after his retirement

Larionov - Director of Player Ops for Saint Petersburg in the KHL since 2008

Lapointe - Pro scout for Chicago until Bergevin poached him as Director of Player Development for Montreal

Metalleaf
04-11-2014, 01:24 PM
Larionov is a player agent though, he'd have to stop representing Yakupov, etc.

Metalleaf
04-11-2014, 01:31 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bk9RFihCMAAKMuv.jpg

Volcanologist
04-11-2014, 01:33 PM
Maybe he can bring some of that Red Wing magic here, we could sure use a 23 year(and counting) streak of being in the playoffs.

Montana
04-11-2014, 02:02 PM
What's a alternate governor?

Metalleaf
04-11-2014, 02:07 PM
I think it means he deals directly with ownership.

leafman101
04-11-2014, 02:15 PM
It means he can sit on the NHL board of governors. He's an alternate to Tanenbaum who is the governor for the Leafs. Lieweke and Nonis are too.

WingedWheel
04-11-2014, 02:46 PM
Shanahan seems like a bright guy and a good leader. It's a new position for him but as long as he is surrounded with good people, or eventually surrounds himself with (his own) good people, he should be fine.

It seems like a bit of a publicity stunt, a la Linden in Vancouver, but that doesn't mean neither will succeed and end up being good moves.

leafman101
04-11-2014, 02:48 PM
Its not comparable to Linden at all other than they both used to play. While Linden has been enjoying his retirement Shanahan has been a prominent executive in hockey for the last 5 years.

trujaysfan
04-11-2014, 02:48 PM
Shanahan seems like a bright guy and a good leader. It's a new position for him but as long as he is surrounded with good people, or eventually surrounds himself with (his own) good people, he should be fine.

It seems like a bit of a publicity stunt, a la Linden in Vancouver, but that doesn't mean neither will succeed and end up being good moves.

Is it a PR move? To a degree yes but it is much different than us bringing in a Linden type player as Shanahan never played for us and he has experience in the business of hockey. If we had brought in Mats or Wendel or Cujo that IMO would have been parallel to the move made by vancouver.

WingedWheel
04-11-2014, 03:20 PM
Is it a PR move? To a degree yes but it is much different than us bringing in a Linden type player as Shanahan never played for us and he has experience in the business of hockey. If we had brought in Mats or Wendel or Cujo that IMO would have been parallel to the move made by vancouver.

It's not exactly like Linden but both franchises just had extremely disappointing seasons. That's why it appears the Shanahan hiring, and the timing of it, also has some PR relavence to it. If the Leafs are heading into the playoffs next week does Shanahan still get hired right now? I kind of doubt it. Maybe it still happens but waits 'til the summer.

You're right though, this isn't a former Leaf so there appers to be more depth behind the move than only PR.

mbow30
04-11-2014, 03:22 PM
I don't see how this is a PR move. As mentioned, Shanahan has no connection to the team, and it isn't as if he is jumping into this role straight out of his career, or after having been away from the game. He has been in an executive position with the league since December 2009, starting in a position where he worked directly under Bettman and Daly. In that position he was involved in all facets, both on- and off-the ice. He moved from that position into the disciplinarian role where he worked with players and executives and had to deal with media scrutiny on basically every decision he made. Don't forget - he also built some serious credibility with respect to his managerial abilities based on the transparency he worked to create in the disciplinary process, and has generally been seen as doing a good job to clean up the game (particularly in light of increasing concern over concussions).

I think he also has some ownership/managerial experience with the Rock. His brother was at one point a part owner and I think Brendan was a silent partner as well.

leafman101
04-11-2014, 03:24 PM
Its a PR move as much as any other firing/hiring a GM or coach ever is.

Last I checked making a management/coaching change after a poor year(s) is a hockey move.

KingTucker
04-11-2014, 03:32 PM
Peter DeBoer rumoured to be next coach of Toronto Maple Leafs. Just heard on TSNRadio.

zeke
04-11-2014, 03:32 PM
Hiring Drake is a PR move.

Hiring a high ranking hockey executive to run your hockey ops is a tad different.

Pronger84
04-11-2014, 03:32 PM
It's not exactly like Linden but both franchises just had extremely disappointing seasons. That's why it appears the Shanahan hiring, and the timing of it, also has some PR relavence to it. If the Leafs are heading into the playoffs next week does Shanahan still get hired right now? I kind of doubt it. Maybe it still happens but waits 'til the summer.

You're right though, this isn't a former Leaf so there appers to be more depth behind the move than only PR.

I think if the Leafs were to have made the playoffs, no major changes would be made.... this clearly is a result of the Leafs stinking up the joint this season, like I said best thing that could have happened to this team is miss the playoffs. Of course you'll get the whiners who are upset about the Leafs falling flat, but I'm glad... this is why Shanahan was brought in and IMO this is only the beginning of big time changes that are going to occur with the Leafs... remember folks short term pain for long term gain is the way to go here.

WingedWheel
04-11-2014, 03:33 PM
Its a PR move as much as any other firing/hiring a GM or coach ever is.

Last I checked making a management/coaching change after a poor year(s) is a hockey move.

Sure, but the timing is odd. Shanahan still had a position with the league and it's not like he was going to make any changes to the Leafs with 1 game left in the season.

Leiweke knows how upset the fanbase is and this helps put the spotlight on Shanahan and the future instead of the current situation of sliding out of a playoff position. There is a PR factor involved even if it is a legitimate hockey move. If Linden works out for the Canucks then we can look back and see that wasn't all PR either.

zeke
04-11-2014, 03:33 PM
Peter DeBoer rumoured to be next coach of Toronto Maple Leafs. Just heard on TSNRadio.

Would be perfect.

What he's done with that craptastic devils roster is amazing, especially when you realize the only reason they haven't been a top team is thanks to brodeur.....and that certainly wasn't deboer's call.

zeke
04-11-2014, 03:35 PM
It's not exactly like Linden but both franchises just had extremely disappointing seasons. That's why it appears the Shanahan hiring, and the timing of it, also has some PR relavence to it. .

Yeah, dissapointing seasons are usually when the FO gets overhauled.

KingTucker
04-11-2014, 03:35 PM
Aaron Ward of TSN confirming that DeBoer could be Shanny's coach choice.

Volcanologist
04-11-2014, 03:37 PM
Deboer also made one David Clarkson look like an actual hockey player.

zeke
04-11-2014, 03:37 PM
I'm basing my faith on Leiweke, not Shanny. Hasn't disappointed yet.

Not just Lewike - i'm putting my faith in bettman's eye for executuve talent as well.

Pronger84
04-11-2014, 03:38 PM
Yeah, dissapointing seasons are usually when the FO gets overhauled.

The difference between Vancouver and Toronto is night/day. Vancouver has had many great seasons but had a brutal one this year VS the Leafs who have had shitty seasons the past 9/10, had a good one last year and followed it up with a stinkworthy one this year.... really I feel Toronto needs to change their front office and team alot more then Vancouver does.

Pronger84
04-11-2014, 03:39 PM
Aaron Ward of TSN confirming that DeBoer could be Shanny's coach choice.

What type of coach is DeBoer?

MindzEye
04-11-2014, 03:41 PM
Aaron Ward of TSN confirming that DeBoer could be Shanny's coach choice.

Sign me up.

leafman101
04-11-2014, 03:42 PM
Like DeBoer. He has been a head coach for almost 20 years now, and has had success in both the OHL (won championship) and NHL (went to the finals with that shitty Devils team).

KingTucker
04-11-2014, 03:44 PM
What type of coach is DeBoer?

He's fairly good with young players and has an eye on analytics as well. He's very congenial with the media and has...here's a bio from NHL.com:

The forecheck you have brought to New Jersey is particularly aggressive. Was it difficult to bring that style and that philosophy to the Devils based on the history and the reputation the organization had built as being quite defensive-minded?

"On the face of it you would think it would be. You're following Jacques Lemaire, who had such a great run the second half of the year prior playing a typical Jacques Lemaire system, which isn't that [aggressive forechecking]. With the history of the New Jersey Devils and their style you would think on the face of it [it would be tough], but I felt I got a lot of support from [Devils general manager] Lou [Lamoriello] in that Lou told me he didn't care what the system was as long as I believed in it, as long as I could teach it, implement it and that it worked. I assured him that while we were going to be aggressive in some areas we hadn't been maybe before, the cornerstone of this team was still going to be defending, keeping the shots down and playing tough, gritty defense. He gave me great support in that area.

"I had some conversations over the summer I took the job with [players] and I got the feeling that I had a captive audience that wanted to play that way a little bit more, and felt we would be a better team if we could find more balance in that area. We were coming off a year in which we ended up 30th in the League in goals for, so we needed to fix that."


http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=642820
That was from last October by the way.

MapleLeafBlueJayBoy
04-11-2014, 03:47 PM
Jonas Siegel ‏@jonasTSN1050 2m
Carlyle on Shanahan: "I remember I had to show him only once how to fold the clothes properly and to make sure I had the remote."

Pronger84
04-11-2014, 03:47 PM
Thanks, he sounds like he's good at getting the best out of his players, not a bad option to have. However, there just his words at this point, I really hope IF he's hired that he can get the players to buy into a team system, and to get those shots against totals down big time.

zeke
04-11-2014, 03:49 PM
Devs were a top-10 posession team in deboer's first year, top-5 in the last two.

And its not just clampdown defense - his guys have no problem scoring at their usual rates...

This year's paces:

Jagr 66
Elias 66
Clowe 50

Zajac 47
Henrique 46
Ryder 35


Zidlicky 42
Gelinas 40
Greene 33

Volcanologist
04-11-2014, 03:54 PM
Zajac has been much better lately. I think that Achilles injury messed him up for a long time.

Leafin'
04-11-2014, 05:26 PM
Can someone explain to me why he is a good coach?

AND wouldn't it makes sense to can Nonis with Carlyle, hire a new GM and then get Deboer?

Pronger84
04-11-2014, 05:46 PM
Can someone explain to me why he is a good coach?

AND wouldn't it makes sense to can Nonis with Carlyle, hire a new GM and then get Deboer?

Who's to say they won't fire them both? I do think Carlyle goes before Nonis does though.... although they need a new GM before draft day.

Leafin'
04-11-2014, 05:48 PM
THe more i read from Devils fans, the more i hear about DeBoer relying heavily on his bottom lines too much and not giving some of his younger guys an opportunity.

NOt sure how much truth there is to this, but not a great trait.

I just want this team to be good dammit. I would cheer for Jacques MArtin (which makes me want to puke typing) if i knew he would take us to a cup.

Pronger84
04-11-2014, 05:50 PM
If that's true then sounds a lot like Carlyle.

Volcanologist
04-11-2014, 05:56 PM
Carlyle tried to get them to play tough gritty defence too.

Pronger84
04-11-2014, 06:01 PM
Carlyle tried to get them to play tough gritty defence too.

Nah, his idea of playing defense was collapsing back in front of the net, there's a difference between playing solid defence vs spending 3/4 of the game in your own end puck chasing.

Bleedsblue&white
04-11-2014, 06:12 PM
Vancouver...Offer one of the stupidest contracts ever to their goalie, then they decide their backup is better, sign him and try to dump their first goalie.
Surprisingly to them (and nobody else) there are no takers...so they change their mind again, deal their backup-who-is-now-a-starter, and try to explain to their original number one how there should be no hard feelings...right?
They have to deal him, leaving them with nothing.

That alone is worth a FO cleanout.

leafman101
04-11-2014, 06:38 PM
The Devils don't have any good young players to play.

DeBoer used yto coach junior. I'm not worries about him handling young players.

Metalleaf
04-11-2014, 06:41 PM
De Boer had no issues playing a 21 year old Adam Henrique 18 minutes a game during their run to the SCF.

Leafin'
04-11-2014, 06:42 PM
Give me Mike Babcock!

Poach the coach.

mbow30
04-11-2014, 06:45 PM
If that's true then sounds a lot like Carlyle.

relying too much on the bottom lines and not playing youngsters reminds you of carlyle?

that sounds like the complete opposite of the past two seasons.

MindzEye
04-11-2014, 06:51 PM
Yeah...Randy played his 4th line less than any coach in the NHL

Leafin'
04-11-2014, 06:56 PM
I don't understand the Deboer love yet.

Lets hear these reasons my hockey savvy forum brothers.

Pronger84
04-11-2014, 06:56 PM
Vancouver...Offer one of the stupidest contracts ever to their goalie, then they decide their backup is better, sign him and try to dump their first goalie.
Surprisingly to them (and nobody else) there are no takers...so they change their mind again, deal their backup-who-is-now-a-starter, and try to explain to their original number one how there should be no hard feelings...right?
They have to deal him, leaving them with nothing.

That alone is worth a FO cleanout.

Agreed, but so is signing a plug 3rd liner and then using your compliance buyouts on Grabo and Liles.

mbow30
04-11-2014, 07:01 PM
I don't understand the Deboer love yet.

Lets hear these reasons my hockey savvy forum brothers.

he was a wildly successful jr. coach -- in 13 years as a coach he only finished a season with a sub 500 record once.

and in the nhl, his record is over 500 despite coaching some of the least impressive rosters in the league. when he has had talent, though, his teams have succeeded -- a 92 point team in florida that just missed the playoffs (they lost bouwmeester and then cleaned house the following season). and, fo course, the trip to the finals with the kovy-led devils.

he has laso proven that he can work with young players and he can work with vets. hell, he had kovy playing a two way game.

leafman101
04-11-2014, 07:06 PM
His teams are also tops in possession rankings.

And he is a very experienced coach. He is only 45 but he has 19 years of head coaching experience in the OHL and NHL. He has been a head coach at a high level since he was 26. for comparison Carlyle is 57 and has 16 years of head coaching experience. Ron Wilson has 18. This guy stared head coaching while most of these other guys were still playing hockey.

Leafin'
04-11-2014, 07:11 PM
Here's a thought to improve the team(Leaf homerism in full effect):

Nazem Kadri + Jake Gardiner + 2014 1st(and/or Fred Gauthier) for Shea Weber

With Kulemin, Bolland, Franson, McClement, Raymond all potentially gone, and the cap going up... you never know.

BUt that would be a sure way to improve the team defence. Get the best all around defender in the league.

mbow30
04-11-2014, 07:13 PM
they'll still stink defensively because they won't have any centres.

leafman101
04-11-2014, 07:13 PM
Devils 5 on5 Corsi Close
2013-14 - 54.6% (4th)
2012-13 - 55.6% (2nd)
2011-12 - 51.0% (10th)

leafman101
04-11-2014, 07:14 PM
Sure, then lets get Crosby next.

Pronger84
04-11-2014, 07:22 PM
Here's a thought to improve the team(Leaf homerism in full effect):

Nazem Kadri + Jake Gardiner + 2014 1st(and/or Fred Gauthier) for Shea Weber

With Kulemin, Bolland, Franson, McClement, Raymond all potentially gone, and the cap going up... you never know.

BUt that would be a sure way to improve the team defence. Get the best all around defender in the league.

Be a solid deal for the Leafs, but Nashville does this why? If they weren't willing to accept the qualifying offer for letting him walk to Philly what makes u think they'll agree to that trade.... personally I don't get why they re-upped him the guy clearly doesn't want to be in Nashville, if I was the GM I'd let him walk to Philly and take the compensation price.... then again I believe if a player doesn't want to be on the team in the 1st place he needs to GTFO.

Pronger84
04-11-2014, 07:25 PM
relying too much on the bottom lines and not playing youngsters reminds you of carlyle?

that sounds like the complete opposite of the past two seasons.

Given that Carlyle plays Mckselke (who is a 4th liner) 20 mins a game and Clarkson on the 2nd line yea it does .

mbow30
04-11-2014, 07:25 PM
the leafs don't need a #1 defenseman. they just don't. weber had a very similar year to phaneuf, at least defensively.

they need a guy to take the pressure off phaneuf on the second pair, not another $8mn defenseman.

rated
04-11-2014, 07:32 PM
they need a guy to take the pressure off phaneuf on the second pair, not another $8mn defenseman.

^^ so much this.

Granted I think Rielly (and Gardiner hopefully) will really fit this role once he matures and gets into his prime.

We need 3 Gunnarsson type defenders to play with Phaneuf/Rielly/Gardiner. Drop Franson off at a farm somewhere.

MindzEye
04-11-2014, 07:32 PM
I don't understand the Deboer love yet.

Lets hear these reasons my hockey savvy forum brothers.

Because that Devils team, on personnel alone, sure as **** doesn't look like a playoff team. They play fantastic possession hockey and everyone with a scrap of talent on that team has produced as well as you could have possibly expected them to.

Basically, Jersey plays a lovely structure, without sacrificing individual offensive production. Exactly what we want to see happen here.

Montana
04-11-2014, 08:42 PM
Deboer made David Clarkson look useful.

MindzEye
04-11-2014, 08:50 PM
Deboer made David Clarkson look useful.

He's done a lot, with not a lot of talent in Jersey. In Florida, he did a lot of the same, just had little talent to work with.

Metalleaf
04-11-2014, 09:12 PM
Can we sign the lone wanderer Jagr to a deal too?

Pronger84
04-11-2014, 10:09 PM
He's done a lot, with not a lot of talent in Jersey. In Florida, he did a lot of the same, just had little talent to work with.

Heres the thing with no talent shithole teams, they are easier to coach because they actually buy in because they know they can't rely on skill soley to win hockey games.

If Deboer is hired it'll be interesting to see how he handles this team and how well they respond.... based on what I've heard from in here the dude has a solid record but lets see if he can handle a team who is full of skilled egomaniacs... I hope they can buy into it but I'm not sure they can.

Pronger84
04-11-2014, 10:13 PM
the leafs don't need a #1 defenseman. they just don't. weber had a very similar year to phaneuf, at least defensively.

they need a guy to take the pressure off phaneuf on the second pair, not another $8mn defenseman.

Disagree to a point.... we need a another top pairing guy, don't get me wrong Gunnar is solid but on a GOOD team (paying attention here Leafs?) he's a mid pairing guy. Bringing in another top D allows Gunnar to slide down to the mid pairing with Rielly (and means that meathead Franson is gone) which allows Gleason and Gardiner to round out the bottom pairing.

Doesn't have to be Webtoes but it can be a guy like Myers or Gio to play Robin to Phaneuf's batman.

MindzEye
04-11-2014, 10:18 PM
Heres the thing with no talent shithole teams, they are easier to coach because they actually buy in because they know they can't rely on skill soley to win hockey games.

and great teams happen when you get legitimately talented teams to buy in. Give me the coach who got the shitty team to buy in and you might just have a coach that can get talent to buy in.


If Deboer is hired it'll be interesting to see how he handles this team and how well they respond.... based on what I've heard from in here the dude has a solid record but lets see if he can handle a team who is full of skilled egomaniacs... I hope they can buy into it but I'm not sure they can.

Egomaniacs? Dafuq?

MindzEye
04-11-2014, 10:19 PM
Can we sign the lone wanderer Jagr to a deal too?

We should definitely look into it if we can't gets our hands on a big money centre.

Pronger84
04-11-2014, 10:22 PM
and great teams happen when you get legitimately talented teams to buy in. Give me the coach who got the shitty team to buy in and you might just have a coach that can get talent to buy in.



Egomaniacs? Dafuq?

Individualas guys who are skilled but not necessiarly team players.... Lupul and Clarkson for examples... I've had a few drinks so my spelling and wording is a bit off lol.

MyNameIsJonas
04-11-2014, 11:17 PM
Individualas guys who are skilled but not necessiarly team players.... Lupul and Clarkson for examples... I've had a few drinks so my spelling and wording is a bit off lol.

I'd suggest it's a remarkable improvement over the norm.

GEEMAN
04-12-2014, 08:34 PM
the leafs don't need a #1 defenseman. they just don't. weber had a very similar year to phaneuf, at least defensively.

they need a guy to take the pressure off phaneuf on the second pair, not another $8mn defenseman.

Webber is one of the best d man in hockey , if you can get this horse without giving up the moon and the stars you pull the trigger .

This is what you need , a true #1 leader on the backend , he would make your d significantly better from day one .

This is what you pay 7-8 mil for, not your declining Spezza or Staal that Carolina is looking at moving cause he isnt worth 8 mil .

Metalleaf
04-12-2014, 08:45 PM
Weber gets overrated...where is Nashville?

KingTucker
04-12-2014, 10:17 PM
Weber gets overrated...where is Nashville?

Weber isn't overrated. He's produced about 25% or so of his team's points as has had one of his better years. Nashville has been in the tank because Rinne exploded early in the season and they've been swimming at countercurrent ever since. His quality of competition isn't where it has been since Trotz has been mixing up the defence pairings, but Trotz has said recently Shea has been playing as good as he ever has, if not better.

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2014/03/27/weber-having-best-season-as-a-pro-says-trotz/

The Nashville Predators are going to miss the playoffs for the second straight year, but their captains never played better.

Thats what head coachcoach Barry Trotz said this week, claiming that Shea Weber is in the midst of his best season since breaking into the NHL nine years ago.

Hes not getting the accolades across the league that he would if we were a little higher in the standings, but its by far his best season in terms of production, Trotz said, per The Tennessean. And were basically breaking in five defensemen, maybe four and hes having a terrific season.

So to me, hes having by far his best season as a Predator, as a pro.

Whatever the case, Trotz wants it to be known Weber should be in consideration for this years Norris.

If you were doing a coaching poll, I know hed be in the top three, Trotz said. He has been an absolute beast this year in terms of the way hes played. On and off the ice, hes taken a leadership role. Hes been a difference maker.

He can play in every situation you want to throw at him, and hes having a great season.

Wayward DP
04-13-2014, 09:39 AM
Weber and Phaneuf are comparable players. We've had this debate before

uncus
04-13-2014, 10:07 AM
They are not comparable players .... Phaneuf is slow and dumb and has no idea where his shot is going .....

Metalleaf
04-13-2014, 11:10 AM
Easy to say that when you see Phaneuf 82 games a year and Weber maybe 5 times.

JackBurton
04-13-2014, 11:19 AM
And in Nashville you face zero criticism. It's like how Rick Nash was a "Franchise Player" in Columbus while not putting-up points that would put him in that class or have his team even qualify for the playoffs.

These guys in some of these markets have it so easy.

In Toronto, you suck no matter what.

Metalleaf
04-13-2014, 11:21 AM
Shea Weber would be treated as bad as Phaneuf is if he were captain of the Leafs.

JackBurton
04-13-2014, 11:22 AM
Shea Weber would be treated as bad as Phaneuf is if he were captain of the Leafs.

Yes he would.
What player in markets like Nashville, Florida, Columbus gets any criticism?

The Bryan McCabe example is always my fav. He was the most overpaid useless D-Man ever despite putting up very impressive stats. He goes to Florida, is a worse player, but starts to get acclaim for his play.

LeafGm
04-13-2014, 11:29 AM
The toughest position to play in Toronto is defense, by a mile. Top defensemen in other markets are given almost mythical status by fans who in large part only see them play a couple times a year, while the top defensemen in Toronto get ripped to shreds.

Look at Tomas Kaberle. For most of his time in Toronto, the guy was an elite puck-moving and all-around defensemen. But if you asked the average Leaf fan about him at any point in his tenure here, you were most likely to hear comments about how he was soft, or wouldn't shoot the puck.

JackBurton
04-13-2014, 11:31 AM
I really love hearing how Dion is a 4-5 million per D-Man who is really a "Good #3".

Metalleaf
04-13-2014, 11:49 AM
Well, looks like we won't be getting DeBoer, apparently he's on the verge of signing an extension with NJD.

Habsy
04-13-2014, 11:55 AM
Tortorella. Enjoy.

Metalleaf
04-13-2014, 12:12 PM
Tortorella. Enjoy.

Not after what he's done in Vancouver.

Pronger84
04-13-2014, 12:16 PM
I really love hearing how Dion is a 4-5 million per D-Man who is really a "Good #3".

He's better then that but he's not exactly an elite 1D either, IMO he's a slightly above average top pairing guy but because he plays on Toronto he looks like a god.

I like Phaneuf, he has a lot of things going for him but he also has some big warts to his game.

Metalleaf
04-13-2014, 12:18 PM
He's better then that but he's not exactly an elite 1D either, IMO he's a slightly above average top pairing guy but because he plays on Toronto he looks like a god.

I like Phaneuf, he has a lot of things going for him but he also has some big warts to his game.

In your mind perhaps.

MyNameIsJonas
04-13-2014, 01:08 PM
He's better then that but he's not exactly an elite 1D either, IMO he's a slightly above average top pairing guy but because he plays on Toronto he looks like a god.

I like Phaneuf, he has a lot of things going for him but he also has some big warts to his game.

Couldn't possibly have this more backwards.

Volcanologist
04-13-2014, 01:41 PM
Tortorella. Enjoy.

The leafs are even less a Tortorella team than a Carlyle team.

JackBurton
04-13-2014, 04:34 PM
Tortoella is staying in Vancouver.

Pronger84
04-13-2014, 05:21 PM
The leafs are even less a Tortorella team than a Carlyle team.

Disagree with that... Torts preaches aggressivness in all 3 zones, he even said last night he is a hybrid coach who likes to use a mix of grit and off the rush attack. Carlyle is different, his idea of playing defense is having everyone collapse down low and when they have the puck to play a dump n chase game that involves heavy forechecking... totally opposite ends of the spectrum if u ask me.

leafman101
04-13-2014, 06:21 PM
Torts is a lunatic. He'd implode here.

Metalleaf
04-13-2014, 06:31 PM
Yeah we need someone with a patient track record with a decent record in terms of PK and possession.

leafman101
04-14-2014, 11:33 AM
Shanahan on analytics (paraphrasing) "I am open to anything that will help this team. Only idiots ignore information."

Volcanologist
04-14-2014, 11:38 AM
so what's Jason Blake up to these days?

zeke
04-14-2014, 11:58 AM
Torts is great. Anyone who thinks he's just a defensive coach is wrong.

Bleedsblue&white
04-14-2014, 12:26 PM
No way do they bring Torts in. He can't handle Vancouver, what would he do here?

MyNameIsJonas
04-14-2014, 12:27 PM
Trotz seem more likely that Torts....especially with this culture nonsense strewn about.

PKForce81
04-14-2014, 12:28 PM
Agree with 101, Torts would be bad. Not just because he's mentally unstable but also because those who want a more structured system would hate this move..Anyone who saw Tampa Bay(when they won the Cup with amazing goaltending) knows this...You need to score 4-5 goals to win games and guys would be getting caught out of position way too often(because of the high pressure up front)...Terrible idea...

PKForce81
04-14-2014, 12:33 PM
Shanahan on analytics (paraphrasing) "I am open to anything that will help this team. Only idiots ignore information."

I found that entire press conference kinda awkward. Not much being said(and fair enough since theyr'e still analyzing i guess) and then kinda beating around the bush when asked who is making the final decision..Nonis just kept saying "well umm well..." barely could finish his sentence..Finally admitted that Shanahan is his boss so it'll be up to him.

I do like that part. Nonis can't make any big decisions without going to Shanny(haven't been impressed with his trades)...so that's definitely a positive. Hopefully Shanahan has better vision in terms of what this team needs.

TimHorton
04-14-2014, 12:34 PM
The Nonis trades haven't been awful, but the FA signings are a disaster. Our pro-scouting department needs an entire revamp I suspect.

MyNameIsJonas
04-14-2014, 12:36 PM
I found that entire press conference kinda awkward. Not much being said(and fair enough since theyr'e still analyzing i guess) and then kinda beating around the bush when asked who is making the final decision..Nonis just kept saying "well umm well..." barely could finish his sentence..Finally admitted that Shanahan is his boss so it'll be up to him.

I do like that part. Nonis can't make any big decisions without going to Shanny(haven't been impressed with his trades)...so that's definitely a positive. Hopefully Shanahan has better vision in terms of what this team needs.

Feaster 2.0.

leafman101
04-14-2014, 12:56 PM
Nonis has no problem doing that job though. He did it for years with Burke.

Nonis is an experienced GM. I have no problem with him as long as the decision making is taken out of his hands. That is actually exactly what a situation like this needs in the GM role.

SENSible
04-14-2014, 01:17 PM
Windrow dressing or handing the keys to an inexperienced idiot. Either way, I'm happy.

Volcanologist
04-14-2014, 01:18 PM
Did Nonis ever want the GM job to begin with? I'm thinking probably not.

eventually he'll end up back in the arms of Burkie, together again.

Metalleaf
04-14-2014, 01:20 PM
Twitter's fun right now.

worm
04-14-2014, 01:20 PM
isnt burke still looking for a GM in calgary?

MindzEye
04-14-2014, 02:58 PM
Torts is great. Anyone who thinks he's just a defensive coach is wrong.

When was the last time a team of is out produced the expectations of it's constituent parts?

Pronger84
04-14-2014, 03:07 PM
Nonis has no problem doing that job though. He did it for years with Burke.

Nonis is an experienced GM. I have no problem with him as long as the decision making is taken out of his hands. That is actually exactly what a situation like this needs in the GM role.

That's just it though the job of a GM IS to make decisions about the hockey team, same way a landlord decides to make decisions about the property he assigned to manage. Nonis works best as an assistant, someone who will guide him to make the right decisions (case in point TL pressuring him into trading for Bernier)... Nonis does not work well as a GM.

Pronger84
04-14-2014, 03:07 PM
isnt burke still looking for a GM in calgary?

Nah, lets be honest here.... he was never looking for a GM. Burke wants to run that show in Calgary himself... anything else was just smoke and mirrors.

Wayward DP
04-14-2014, 04:05 PM
When was the last time a team of is out produced the expectations of it's constituent parts?

Didn't the Rags finish first in the east not too long ago?

MindzEye
04-14-2014, 04:15 PM
Didn't the Rags finish first in the east not too long ago?

11-12, yeah

But I don't think that:

Gaborik-Richards-Callahan
Hagelin-Stepan-Anisimov
Boyle-Dubinsky-Fedotenko
Prust-Mitchell-Rupp

McDonagh-Girardi
Staal-Del Zotto
Stralman-mixed bag of stuff

and

Lundqvist putting up a .930
Biron

doesn't deserve to be a 109 point team.


So yeah, in the best year of Henrik's career, the Rangers were very good. I have a hard time giving the Fonz much credit for Lundqvist having a career year behind a good, deep veteran team.

KingTucker
04-14-2014, 06:26 PM
So about the presser.

Shanny basically said he'd be taking a look at analytics as an additional way of judging Leafs performance. He said any and all information was going to be looked at going forward. Nonis said Shanny had the last say on anything and that Carlyle was a good coach but nothing more. The rest was basically windbagging and not much of substance.
They all admitted the year was a huge failiure though, which was kinda nice to hear.

leafman101
04-14-2014, 07:34 PM
That's just it though the job of a GM IS to make decisions about the hockey team, same way a landlord decides to make decisions about the property he assigned to manage. Nonis works best as an assistant, someone who will guide him to make the right decisions (case in point TL pressuring him into trading for Bernier)... Nonis does not work well as a GM.

Don't worry about the titles. Nonis is essentially the assistant gm. Decision making authority is shanahans.

MyNameIsJonas
04-14-2014, 07:44 PM
Nah, lets be honest here.... he was never looking for a GM. Burke wants to run that show in Calgary himself... anything else was just smoke and mirrors.

I bet you he names a GM before the draft.

If i am right, will you drink some Drano?

BeLeafer
04-14-2014, 08:08 PM
In the world of employment law, that's called constructive dismissal. It pretty much removes Nonis from the GM chair ... won't be remotely shocked if he's gone by the draft (nor would I shed a tear, although worrisome having a guy with no managerial experience in that role).

CH1
04-14-2014, 08:10 PM
Honest question: what in Shanahan's background inspires any faith that he'll be a solid GM?

Volcanologist
04-14-2014, 08:13 PM
Honest question: what in Shanahan's background inspires any faith that he'll be a solid GM?

He's not the GM.

BeLeafer
04-14-2014, 08:14 PM
Honest question: what in Shanahan's background inspires any faith that he'll be a solid GM?

uh, he won a Stanley Cup or two?

Now that I say that, this could be Oil Change Redux.

BeLeafer
04-14-2014, 08:14 PM
He's not the GM.

Well, he has the most important part of a GM's role.

CH1
04-14-2014, 08:16 PM
He's not the GM.

according to this thread, he has veto power.

Unlike Can Neely who is just a ceremonial VP in Boston.

Metalleaf
04-14-2014, 08:16 PM
uh, he won a Stanley Cup or two?

Now that I say that, this could be Oil Change Redux.

Nah, Shanahan seems like a progressive guy.

BeLeafer
04-14-2014, 08:25 PM
Nah, Shanahan seems like a progressive guy.

I really don't know much about him. Seems like a blank slate.

MindzEye
04-14-2014, 08:38 PM
I expect him to bring Kris Draper in as an assistant GM any day now.

Metalleaf
04-14-2014, 08:39 PM
$1 Draper.

Montana
04-14-2014, 08:42 PM
I expect him to bring Kris Draper in as an assistant GM any day now.


Assistant to the General Manager.

MindzEye
04-14-2014, 08:49 PM
Assistant to the General Manager.

Nope. He's Special Assistant to the Ken Holland now. To come to Toronto it will probably take an increased role.

Montana
04-14-2014, 08:53 PM
phillipjfry.jpg

leafman101
04-14-2014, 08:54 PM
Honest question: what in Shanahan's background inspires any faith that he'll be a solid GM?

The fact that he is bright, a hard worker and has excelled at everything he has ever done in hockey as a player and executive.

Leafin'
04-14-2014, 08:55 PM
I just hope this isntt bullsh*t. I hope Shanahan works out for us.

Metalleaf
04-14-2014, 08:57 PM
Shanahan probably hopes he works out, cause that means another cup.

Pronger84
04-14-2014, 09:13 PM
I bet you he names a GM before the draft.

If i am right, will you drink some Drano?

Lets make this interesting shall we? If Nonis is still the GM past draft day then you have to take your fakepony show elsewhere (aka stop posting here), but if Nonis is gone before the draft day and you are right then I will drink some dano... deal?

LeafGm
04-14-2014, 09:13 PM
I just hope this isntt bullsh*t. I hope Shanahan works out for us.
If he actually brings in a new front office, things could be interesting. But if the plan is just to make Shanahan the figurehead, while retaining Nonis, Loiselle, Poulin and the rest of the current front office (minus a few scouts), then this is just MLSE rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

Metalleaf
04-14-2014, 09:15 PM
No, don't drink Drano its bad for your health, drink diet Drano instead.

Metalleaf
04-14-2014, 09:16 PM
If he actually brings in a new front office, things could be interesting. But if the plan is just to make Shanahan the figurehead, while retaining Nonis, Loiselle, Poulin and the rest of the current front office (minus a few scouts), then this is just MLSE rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

I'm for keeping Nonis a bit longer, but I want Poulin/Loiselle gone.

leafman101
04-14-2014, 09:18 PM
I love everything Shanahan said today. Talk is cheap, but that was pretty much his message. He's here to work hard and do his best to make the team better. Not making any big promises or predictions. Not setting in stone a way his team will have to play and chase after that for 5 years. Not ruling out using information.

I think he has the right mindset to set the tone for the organization. He's going to take his time to see what he has there and he will start moving out the guys he doesn't trust and bringing in guys he does. He is doing things the right way.

Montana
04-14-2014, 09:21 PM
then I will drink some dano... deal?


http://inkslingerblog.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/clint-nod.gif#nods%20gif%20480x216

Metalleaf
04-14-2014, 09:23 PM
Dano?

http://utshob.com/images/medium/Dano%20Milk%20Powder%202kg%20Tin........1468.jpg

Pronger84
04-14-2014, 09:26 PM
I love everything Shanahan said today. Talk is cheap, but that was pretty much his message. He's here to work hard and do his best to make the team better. Not making any big promises or predictions. Not setting in stone a way his team will have to play and chase after that for 5 years. Not ruling out using information.

I think he has the right mindset to set the tone for the organization. He's going to take his time to see what he has there and he will start moving out the guys he doesn't trust and bringing in guys he does. He is doing things the right way.

We'll see... I want to be optimistic about this but given that they (TL and Shanahan) won't can Nonis, it makes me think they are talking out of both sides of their *******s... talk is fine but I'd rather see some action.

Pronger84
04-14-2014, 09:26 PM
Dano?

http://utshob.com/images/medium/Dano%20Milk%20Powder%202kg%20Tin........1468.jpg

Looks interesting lol.

MindzEye
04-14-2014, 09:27 PM
Dano?

http://utshob.com/images/medium/Dano%20Milk%20Powder%202kg%20Tin........1468.jpg

It's the only full cream milk powder I keep in my kitchen

leafman101
04-14-2014, 09:30 PM
We'll see... I want to be optimistic about this but given that they (TL and Shanahan) won't can Nonis, it makes me think they are talking out of both sides of their *******s... talk is fine but I'd rather see some action.

But why do they have to fire Nonis? Shanahan has no experience as a GM and would need to hire an experienced GM that is happy and willing to give up decision making authority. Why fire Nonis to hire another Nonis?

Taking away his decision making power is big.

Pronger84
04-14-2014, 09:34 PM
But why do they have to fire Nonis? Shanahan has no experience as a GM and would need to hire an experienced GM that is happy and willing to give up decision making authority. Why fire Nonis to hire another Nonis?

Taking away his decision making power is big.

Because Nonis has failed on the job and been a part of the losing culture here for several years now, obviously it wouldn't be Shanahan taking over and he'd have to find an experienced GM but he would have several months to find the right person which is extremely doable. They are going on and on about culture change, fine that they are acknowledging it but now they need to put their words into action... firing Nonis is a healthy start.

Metalleaf
04-14-2014, 09:34 PM
Nonis = Sherman, and he's done a decent job working for Sakic.

blacksheep
04-14-2014, 09:46 PM
Talk IS cheap, but so far, that's all this franchise is about.
Quinn was brought in to right the ship, and he had the most success at getting it done, but then he was dumped.
JFJ was brought in to right the ship. Ya right...
Fletcher came back to us to "fix" what JFJ did, and instead, we got Finger'd.
Burke was next, and he was supposed to be the saviour, (finally). He made some shrewd deals, and got us some really good talent, but then...
Along the way, we had Peddie come and go, and his replacements come and go. We had ownership changes, and tons and tons of promises. We even had a nice apology letter from Tanenbaum.
Despite all the talk; all the promises; all the changes... here we are today.
More talk...
Talk is cheap.
Is Carlyle fired yet?

Pronger84
04-14-2014, 09:51 PM
Burke made some shrewd moves but the best he was able to do was put together a mediocre team... nope Carlyle isn' fired but you have Nonis humming and hawing saying "He's a good coach... that's all I'm gonna say on that" If I'm Shanahan and I see that Nonuts hasn't fired him, i'd take that decision right out of his hands and fire Carlyle's ass at the press conference "Randy we'd like to thank you for your time but you haven't done much for the Leafs... there is the door".

MyNameIsJonas
04-14-2014, 10:41 PM
Lets make this interesting shall we? If Nonis is still the GM past draft day then you have to take your fakepony show elsewhere (aka stop posting here), but if Nonis is gone before the draft day and you are right then I will drink some dano... deal?

You ****ing simpleton.

I was saying that Burke will name a GM in Calgary before the draft, after you proclaimed that he was out for the job all along.

Put down the Dano.

mbow30
04-14-2014, 10:52 PM
I love everything Shanahan said today. Talk is cheap, but that was pretty much his message. He's here to work hard and do his best to make the team better. Not making any big promises or predictions. Not setting in stone a way his team will have to play and chase after that for 5 years. Not ruling out using information.

I think he has the right mindset to set the tone for the organization. He's going to take his time to see what he has there and he will start moving out the guys he doesn't trust and bringing in guys he does. He is doing things the right way.

the only thing i didn't like was what he said when they asked him about Phaneuf.

As the captain, top defenseman, etc. you'd expect him to have something better to say than 'I need time to evaluate' when asked point black what he thinks of Phaneuf.

It gave me the impression that he probably doesn't think too highly of him.

leafman101
04-14-2014, 10:55 PM
That was his answer to everything though.

Leafin'
04-14-2014, 11:02 PM
I wouldn't put much stock into anything said today.

Regardless of what could've been said, sh*tting on Phaneuf today would not help his cause.

mbow30
04-14-2014, 11:06 PM
That was his answer to everything though.

it was a point question about a player the team just made an enormous investment in who is also the team's captain and ice time leader. different than questions about the coach, or carlyle.

he could have said 'dion phaneuf's a good defenseman'. there was no risk in that biting him in the ass.

rated
04-14-2014, 11:18 PM
We'll see... I want to be optimistic about this but given that they (TL and Shanahan) won't can Nonis, it makes me think they are talking out of both sides of their *******s... talk is fine but I'd rather see some action.

You're being ridiculous. Shanahan just got the job and I can promise you he didn't agree to come here just to not change anything. He's also (hopefully) not one of those stupid reactionary people who's going to make rash decisions, something that has hurt this organization for well over a decade now. The correct thing to do is learn this team, the organization and all it's staff/players so he can become better aware of what he's got and THEN start making the necessary changes.

Be patient and wait. He just got the job and the season just ended. If 6 months from now nothing has happened, bitch away then.

Leafin'
04-14-2014, 11:24 PM
Phaneuf is fine, get him someone to play with and we'll finally see how good he is. Its a team sport afterall.

If we can get Myers out of Buffalo, that'd be an interesting combo. With his skating ability, you might even be able to play him with Rielly.

Next year i'd like to see our top-4 as follows:

Phaneuf - Bieksa
Rielly - Myers

Hoss
04-15-2014, 08:30 AM
I know there is alot of love for Gunnarson, but if you can upgrade there that is huge...you can't move Phaneuf so getting Gunnar out might be your only and best choice.

Wayward DP
04-15-2014, 08:39 AM
I know there is alot of love for Gunnarson, but if you can upgrade there that is huge...you can't move Phaneuf so getting Gunnar out might be your only and best choice.

Who in the league can do what Gunnar does for less money?

Montana
04-15-2014, 08:39 AM
the only thing i didn't like was what he said when they asked him about Phaneuf.

As the captain, top defenseman, etc. you'd expect him to have something better to say than 'I need time to evaluate' when asked point black what he thinks of Phaneuf.

It gave me the impression that he probably doesn't think too highly of him.


Nah, you're looking too deeply into something that wasn't there.....Shannahan is simply smart enough to know that if he'd replied with anything resembling a genuine answer it would have simply opened the floodgates to further questions about Dion, and then his assessment of other players. You keep it as boring, bland and stock and answer as you can to those kinds of questions, as Shanny did.....and it snuffs them out.

mbow30
04-15-2014, 09:24 AM
IMO, saying 'no comment' risks opening more floodgates than saying he supports the team's captain.

leafman101
04-15-2014, 09:24 AM
IMO Shanahan was just being honest. He has an opinion on the organization as an outsider but he wants to come in here and take the time to learn more before he makes any decisions. He shouldn't make a decision on Phaneuf one way or the other at this point. Phaneuf will obviously be a guy he does keep, but no reason to rush to that decision without the benefit of all of the info.

It wasn't a no comment, it was a I'm not in a position to make any comments yet.