OT: American Politics
- Thread starter MindzEye
- Start date
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
I think we need to differentiate between "getting away with" something politically, and legally.
The legality of Trumps actions (both pre election and post...some of them anyway) are currently being slowly sorted out down there.
But I think it's absolutely crazy to suggest that it's just "candor and policy" differences that make up the rest. I'm about to list a bunch of wild shit, and we need to ask ourselves if any administration (Dem or Rep) in living memory would have "gotten away with".
- Name his daughter as "Special Advisor" to the President
- Name his son in law as "Senior Advisor" the the President, complete with security clearances that he lied (numerous times, on official documents) to get
- Named a foreign agent as his national security advisor
- Had his campaign managed (and held a business relartionship that goes back decades) by a guy who has almost solely worked for tyrants and kleptocrats over the last couple of decades (think I'm being sensational here? Marcos, Mobutu Sese Seko in Zaire, Angolan Warload Jonas Savimbi, etc. Manafort made his fortune working for the worst humanity has to offer, people who are so far off the end of the moral scale that it's hard to comprehend from our seats in the western world)
- Has a "fixer". Not a lawyer who handles lawsuits, etc for them. A ****ing fixer. Think of the optics on that one. A human being up to enough greasy shit that they feel the need to employ someone willing to perform "legal" tasks that no reputable lawyer would consider doing.
- Lost a civil fraud case (Trump University)
- Continuously lied about the whereabouts of his tax returns, and refused to make them public
- Directly profitting off of official United States government business by funneling just about every minute he spends away from the white house towards one of his properties
- His "Special Advisor" has received millions worth in trademarks from the Chinese government, that were denied to her previously, since her father won the election
- He's flat out ignored that the emoluments clause exists, there's copious amounts of evidence on that front. He's refused to divest from his company, which we know is in the debt of foreign entities and has borrowed money from foreign governments. Even this most recent 500 million dollar loan from the MCC to the Lido City project (which Trump has a stake in) is a direct violation of the emoluments clause. It's gets even worse when you consider what Lido City is. It's a project that is part of the Chinese Government's absolutely massive modern reimagining of the ancient Silk Road. This is very much illegal according to the Constitution and he's just not being held accountable for it.
I could go on, there's quite a bit more that has nothing to do with "candor" (which quite honestly ranges from ridiculous but mostly harmless bullshit to blatant assaults on freedom of the press, independence of the judiciary, etc...bedrock democratic principles under assault by the sitting President) or "policy" (which is a really kind word to use for the type of human rights abuses going on at the southern border right now) that no other administration (Dem or Rep) would have gotten away with a fraction of.
Notice that I've ignored other outrageous and ridiculous bullshit like Pruitt for EPA head, De Vos for Education, Kudlow for Director of the NEC, etc. These are obvious horseshit hires, but they're well within the scope of what has been deemed "acceptable" in modern politics. I'm just sticking to shit that are clear ethical or legal violations that Trump just isn't being held accountable for.
The legality of Trumps actions (both pre election and post...some of them anyway) are currently being slowly sorted out down there.
But I think it's absolutely crazy to suggest that it's just "candor and policy" differences that make up the rest. I'm about to list a bunch of wild shit, and we need to ask ourselves if any administration (Dem or Rep) in living memory would have "gotten away with".
- Name his daughter as "Special Advisor" to the President
- Name his son in law as "Senior Advisor" the the President, complete with security clearances that he lied (numerous times, on official documents) to get
- Named a foreign agent as his national security advisor
- Had his campaign managed (and held a business relartionship that goes back decades) by a guy who has almost solely worked for tyrants and kleptocrats over the last couple of decades (think I'm being sensational here? Marcos, Mobutu Sese Seko in Zaire, Angolan Warload Jonas Savimbi, etc. Manafort made his fortune working for the worst humanity has to offer, people who are so far off the end of the moral scale that it's hard to comprehend from our seats in the western world)
- Has a "fixer". Not a lawyer who handles lawsuits, etc for them. A ****ing fixer. Think of the optics on that one. A human being up to enough greasy shit that they feel the need to employ someone willing to perform "legal" tasks that no reputable lawyer would consider doing.
- Lost a civil fraud case (Trump University)
- Continuously lied about the whereabouts of his tax returns, and refused to make them public
- Directly profitting off of official United States government business by funneling just about every minute he spends away from the white house towards one of his properties
- His "Special Advisor" has received millions worth in trademarks from the Chinese government, that were denied to her previously, since her father won the election
- He's flat out ignored that the emoluments clause exists, there's copious amounts of evidence on that front. He's refused to divest from his company, which we know is in the debt of foreign entities and has borrowed money from foreign governments. Even this most recent 500 million dollar loan from the MCC to the Lido City project (which Trump has a stake in) is a direct violation of the emoluments clause. It's gets even worse when you consider what Lido City is. It's a project that is part of the Chinese Government's absolutely massive modern reimagining of the ancient Silk Road. This is very much illegal according to the Constitution and he's just not being held accountable for it.
I could go on, there's quite a bit more that has nothing to do with "candor" (which quite honestly ranges from ridiculous but mostly harmless bullshit to blatant assaults on freedom of the press, independence of the judiciary, etc...bedrock democratic principles under assault by the sitting President) or "policy" (which is a really kind word to use for the type of human rights abuses going on at the southern border right now) that no other administration (Dem or Rep) would have gotten away with a fraction of.
Notice that I've ignored other outrageous and ridiculous bullshit like Pruitt for EPA head, De Vos for Education, Kudlow for Director of the NEC, etc. These are obvious horseshit hires, but they're well within the scope of what has been deemed "acceptable" in modern politics. I'm just sticking to shit that are clear ethical or legal violations that Trump just isn't being held accountable for.
Habsy
Yes, I'm kidding people.
Don’t like the man much do you?
He’s still not “getting away with” anything.
BTW, some of your post is laughable.
LeafGm
Well-known member
Yes, you've hit the nail on the head.
Canada is clearly the bad guy in the "family separations & for-profit child prison camps" story.
MapleLeafBlueJayBoy
Well-known member
Ok but what about Hillary’s emails and Benghazi?
Habsy
Yes, I'm kidding people.
Holy straw man Batman.
I’m serious, take them. Or are you only interested in virtue signaling?
Habsy
Yes, I'm kidding people.
Apparently she “got away with” that.
Habsy
Yes, I'm kidding people.
For years I’ve had to hear about this immigration problem. The Democrats did nothing about it. The GOP did nothing about. The Democrats and GOP still aren’t doing anything about it. Now, this is what’s left. If the House and Senate doesn’t do something about it now well then, they’re the amoral pricks I think the are.
leafman101
Well-known member
Uh. For years you've had to hear about "an" immigration problem. Not this one. This is new and you can't really argue otherwise. There is only one party responsible for, and that can do anything about, this immigration problem.
Habsy
Yes, I'm kidding people.
You can think that. I choose to believe Washington let it get this far.
Let’s see how quickly they move now.
You also forget you need 60 votes in the senate. It’s part of the reason nothing has been done. Keep thinking they give a shit about the immigrants and kids though.
Let’s see how quickly they move now.
You also forget you need 60 votes in the senate. It’s part of the reason nothing has been done. Keep thinking they give a shit about the immigrants and kids though.
zeke
Well-known member
you've heard about it...but weirdly it never actually effected your life much.
Habsy
Yes, I'm kidding people.
Maybe because I entered legally.
leafman101
Well-known member
Yeah, if by "Washington" you mean the Trump administration. Lets not pretend like facts don't exists. This problem is a new one.
Habsy
Yes, I'm kidding people.
You guys don’t get it. I’m thoroughly calloused on this issue because it’s been kicked down the road for decades. Now, because Trump implements a zero tolerance policy, it’s a catastrophe.
Sorry, Washington did this. Washington can also fix this in less than a week. If they really want to. What I think is that they don’t want to fix anything, the Democrats want this as an election issue as usual and the GOP can’t agree on the color of the sky.
Sorry, Washington did this. Washington can also fix this in less than a week. If they really want to. What I think is that they don’t want to fix anything, the Democrats want this as an election issue as usual and the GOP can’t agree on the color of the sky.
leafman101
Well-known member
But this is happening to families who entered legally. Imagine you presented yourself at customs when you first came and they took your kids away.
Habsy
Yes, I'm kidding people.
You’re so obtuse. When The Democrats had a supermajority they never even bothered with immigration. It’s always been an election issue.
Habsy
Yes, I'm kidding people.
Uh huh. They’ve all entered legally.
Let’s get something straight too, this is a directive from the WH, not Congress. Keep conflating issues though.
leafman101
Well-known member
Two different issues. Washington kicked the can for decades and ended up with the whole Dreamers mess. Taking kids away from parents has nothing to do with the past decades of an illegal immigration problem. Its a completely new, abhorrent policy that only the evil that created can be fairly blamed for.