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OT: The Toronto Blue Jays

“When I was there for a couple days, I wasn’t even really playing at first, and I was just, you know, taking fly balls in the outfield and doing some drills, and I kind of felt like my hips were hurting a little bit — kind of felt like they were out of place — and it was tough on my body. And every time I dove on the turf, my body really took a beating. The next day I would wake up really sore and achy. That’s why, when I got there, Jose told me I’ve got to pick my spots wisely, and not dive all the time, and take care of your body on the turf, because it’s so much different than grass — because it’s basically concrete underneath, versus a real grass stadium where there’s the soil and the gravel and whatnot, so it’s easier to play on rather than turf.”
-Pompey
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Argos GTFO!

What garbage, hopefully this new turf they install isn't as hard as concrete. Where is this 250 million reno Beeston was going on about a year or so ago? I like the Budweiser Zone, but that is no 250 mil reno.
 
Yeah.....it's really ****ing hard for just about any reliever to provide ~2 WAR every year for 4 years. Just for reference, over the last 4 complete seasons of his career, Mariano Riveira was worth 7.7 WAR (if you count his injured season...as we should, because shit happens, he was worth 6.1 WAR over his last 4 seasons)

Chapman, about as elite as a reliever gets, has been worth 8 WAR over his last 4 seasons. Miller will have to be awesome, and healthy to come even remotely close. Miller himself, has been worth 3.5 WAR the last 4 seasons combined, the majority of that coming last season when he was 2.3 WAR.

Yeah, big pass for me. You'd be able to get a few of K Rod, Grilli, Gregerson, Soriano, Mike Adams, Badenhop, Cotts, etc, etc for the money handed out to Miller, never mind the term.
 
War is a bad stat for relievers. That being said, multi-year deals for relievers almost always fail.

But f you do go by WAR, 9m is actually more like 1.2 WAR based on current free agent prices, so it's not a huge reach.
 
What makes it a significant reach is that Miller is being paid based on short period of success for a role that can be filled much cheaper. This is Yankees simply getting their name out there. They have major holes.
 
UWHabs said:
War is a bad stat for relievers.
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Not when assessing overall value it's not. The main thing it doesn't do "well" is adjust for games played, which can be a lot more variable than a position player (or even a starting pitcher). A high end reliever can be healthy all season and still only get into 50-55 games.


But f you do go by WAR, 9m is actually more like 1.2 WAR based on current free agent prices, so it's not a huge reach.
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I've spoken about WAR changing a bit over the last few years previously too (though the value calculations still use 5 million), but I don't see it at 9 million per WAR.

Hanley signed for 22 million a year and projects as 3.6 WAR next season, Martin's 3.5 WAR went for 16.2 million, Panda's 3.6 for 19 million. There's a bunch more examples, and they point at a floating value of 5-6 million per WAR.
 
CH1 said:
Closers grow on trees.
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I think many of us have the Rivera syndrome (see wanting Sanchez to be a closer). We would give up anything to have a sure win going into the 9th. Alas Rivera's of the world are once a generation. Pitchers who can perform well on any given year are out there every off season.
 
MindzEye said:
Not when assessing overall value it's not. The main thing it doesn't do "well" is adjust for games played, which can be a lot more variable than a position player (or even a starting pitcher). A high end reliever can be healthy all season and still only get into 50-55 games.




I've spoken about WAR changing a bit over the last few years previously too (though the value calculations still use 5 million), but I don't see it at 9 million per WAR.

Hanley signed for 22 million a year and projects as 3.6 WAR next season, Martin's 3.5 WAR went for 16.2 million, Panda's 3.6 for 19 million. There's a bunch more examples, and they point at a floating value of 5-6 million per WAR.
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With reliever WAR, I think the flaw is that especially closers tend to come into only close situations. I mean, compare Kimbrel and a replacement level reliever. I have a very hard time thinking that his talent was only the difference for like 2 games all year. Generally when evaluating closers it makes more sense to look at, I think it's something like wpa/Li, where it factors in the leverage of when they entered.
 
The Blue Jays “love” closer David Robertson, according to one industry source, and have engaged in dialogue with Robertson’s agent Scott Leventhal. And the Giants have “solid” interest in third baseman Chase Headley, according to a second source. FOX Sports’ Ken Rosenthal reported San Francisco’s pursuit of Headley had turned “aggressive.”

After finishing one game behind the Yankees in 2014, Toronto has joined Boston as the most active American League East teams to date this offseason. Already, as baseball officials arrive in San Diego on Sunday for the Winter Meetings, the Jays have signed former Yankees catcher Russell Martin to a five-year, $82-million contract and acquired third baseman Josh Donaldson (from Oakland) and outfielder Michael Saunders (from Seattle) in trades.

“Toronto and Boston have made some big moves, no doubt about it,” Yankees general manager Brian Cashman said Friday. “They’ve improved.”

Both teams are looking to do far more. Jon Heyman of CBS Sports first reported the Blue Jays’ consideration of Robertson, as Toronto’s bullpen faltered last season. However, whether the Jays will meet Robertson’s asking price of about $50 million over four years remains in question. Even some Toronto officials are skeptical that the club ultimately will land the Yankees’ closer of 2014, and the club also is very high on accomplished free-agent setup man Luke Gregerson.
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http://nypost.com/2014/12/06/yankees-on-alert-as-jays-love-robertson-giants-after-headley/
 
top RP signings from the last couple of offseasons:

1. R.Soriano $14.0m/2yrs: 66.2ip, 3.11era, 0.5war & 62.0ip, 3.19era, 0.7war
2. J.Nathan $10.0m/2yrs: 58ip, 4.81era, 0.2war
3. M.Rivera $10.0m/1yrs: 64.0ip, 2.11era, 1.5war
4. B.Wilson $10.0m/1yrs: 48.1ip, 4.66era, -0.4war
5. J.Benoit $7.8m/2yrs: 54.1ip, 1.49era, 1.2war
6. J.Broxton $7.0m/3yrs: 30.2ip, 4.11era, -0.5war & 58.2ip, 2.30era, 0.5war
7. F.Rodney $7.0m/2yrs: 66.1ip, 2.85era, 1.2war
8. J.Affeldt $6.0m/3yrs: 33.2ip, 3.74era, -0.4war & 55.1ip, 2.28era, 0.4war
9. M.Adams $6.0m/2yrs: 25.0ip, 3.96era, -0.4war & 18.2ip, 2.89era, 0.3war
10. G.Balfour $6.0m/2yrs: 63.2ip, 4.92era, 0.0war
11. J.Howell $5.6m/2yrs: 49.0ip, 2.39era, 0.3war
12. B.Logan $5.5m/3yrs: 25.0ip, 6.84era, -0.3war
13. S.Baker $5.5m/1yrs: 15.0ip, 3.60era, -0.1war
14. J.Smith $5.3m/3yrs: 74.2ip, 1.81era, 1.0war
15. E.Mujica $4.8m/2yrs: 60.0ip, 3.90era, 0.4war
16. K.Fujikawa $4.5m/2yrs: 12.0ip, 5.25era, 0.2war & 13.0ip, 4.85era, 0.0war
17. J.Axford $4.5m/1yrs: 54.2ip, 3.95era, -0.5war
18. K.Uehara $4.3m/1yrs: 74.1ip, 1.09era, 3.3war
19. S.Burnett $4.0m/2yrs: 9.2ip, 0.93era, -0.1war & 0.2ip, 13.50era, 0.0war
20. J.Soria $4.0m/2yrs: 23.2ip, 3.80era, 0.2war & 44.1ip, 3.25era, 1.5war
 
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