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Thread: OT: The Toronto Blue Jays

  1. #86301
    Legend UWHabs's Avatar
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    Default Re: OT: The Toronto Blue Jays

    Quote Originally Posted by MindzEye View Post
    Mike Trout has more WAR than 10 lineups in baseball

    (including ours)
    Yeah, he's pretty good.

  2. #86302
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    Default Re: OT: The Toronto Blue Jays

    Quote Originally Posted by UWHabs View Post
    Yeah, he's pretty good.
    Yep. The guy is Anaheim putting a top team around him from being a living legend.
    The amount of energy necessary to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude larger than is required to produce it.

  3. #86303
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    Default Re: OT: The Toronto Blue Jays

    he should just go to the yankees or red sox
    ...

  4. #86304
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    Default Re: OT: The Toronto Blue Jays

    You should just shut the **** up
    The amount of energy necessary to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude larger than is required to produce it.

  5. #86305
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    Default Re: OT: The Toronto Blue Jays

    The Jays prefer to make love, not WAR.

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    Default Re: OT: The Toronto Blue Jays

    Yeah, and they prefer the bottom apparently.
    The amount of energy necessary to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude larger than is required to produce it.

  7. #86307
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    Default Re: OT: The Toronto Blue Jays

    I would just like to point something out:

    Shapiro was 8 games under .500 in 9 years as Cleveland GM. Even taking over a playoff calibre team, we're now 1 game under .500 since AA left, which also includes the 2nd playoff season under the strength of the AA moves.

    Here's a quote by an unnamed league GM, from an Elliott story shortly after AA left:

    "What have they won in Cleveland? Have they won a World Series since 1948?" asked one puzzled GM on Thursday. "Have they won anything since Shapiro and Chris Antonetti took over? No, they have never won anything in Cleveland and they will never win anything in Cleveland because they overvalue prospects in a very dramatic way.

    They are worse to deal with than the Los Angeles Dodgers when every minor leaguer was going to be the NL rookie of the year. Shapiro probably doesn't like the fact that the Blue Jays went for it because they never go for it."
    I think it's pretty clear that Shapiro didn't learn anything from his time in Cleveland, and determined that the fault wasn't in his ability to build a team, but in Cleveland's ability to provide him with enough payroll to keep the prospects they developed.

    Wait until he runs into the same problem in Toronto with a mid tier payroll trying to keep Vlad, Bo, etc.
    The amount of energy necessary to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude larger than is required to produce it.

  8. #86308
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    Default Re: OT: The Toronto Blue Jays

    oooh gimme the link for that quote.
    #FreeVladdy

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    Default Re: OT: The Toronto Blue Jays

    Quote Originally Posted by zeke View Post
    oooh gimme the link for that quote.
    https://www.cleveland.com/tribe/inde...shapiro_3.html
    The amount of energy necessary to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude larger than is required to produce it.

  10. #86310
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    Default Re: OT: The Toronto Blue Jays

    Sounds like he's a perfect fit for Rogers.

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    Default Re: OT: The Toronto Blue Jays

    Quote Originally Posted by MindzEye View Post
    I would just like to point something out:

    Shapiro was 8 games under .500 in 9 years as Cleveland GM. Even taking over a playoff calibre team, we're now 1 game under .500 since AA left, which also includes the 2nd playoff season under the strength of the AA moves.

    Here's a quote by an unnamed league GM, from an Elliott story shortly after AA left:



    I think it's pretty clear that Shapiro didn't learn anything from his time in Cleveland, and determined that the fault wasn't in his ability to build a team, but in Cleveland's ability to provide him with enough payroll to keep the prospects they developed.

    Wait until he runs into the same problem in Toronto with a mid tier payroll trying to keep Vlad, Bo, etc.
    The Jays payroll is (was anyway) higher than mid-tier.

    With that said -- we all know that Vladdy will only be a Blue Jay until he's 25 or 26 years old. Even if they do have the money I don't think Shapiro signs him to a massive contract.

  12. #86312
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    Default Re: OT: The Toronto Blue Jays

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainBolduke View Post
    The Jays payroll is (was anyway) higher than mid-tier.

    With that said -- we all know that Vladdy will only be a Blue Jay until he's 25 or 26 years old. Even if they do have the money I don't think Shapiro signs him to a massive contract.
    Cleveland did sign a few of their young players to longer deals (Kluber, Carrasco, Gomes were all under Shapiro's time, Ramirez was after). But they never did get Lindor inked to the long extension - guys like Vlad won't sign the long term extension since they know they can break the bank going year by year.

    I was kind of surprised they never tried to get Stroman, Sanchez, or Osuna locked up long term a year or two ago. They would have been prime candidates to lock in some extra years for some guaranteed money.

  13. #86313
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    Default Re: OT: The Toronto Blue Jays

    Quote Originally Posted by UWHabs View Post
    Cleveland did sign a few of their young players to longer deals (Kluber, Carrasco, Gomes were all under Shapiro's time, Ramirez was after). But they never did get Lindor inked to the long extension - guys like Vlad won't sign the long term extension since they know they can break the bank going year by year.

    I was kind of surprised they never tried to get Stroman, Sanchez, or Osuna locked up long term a year or two ago. They would have been prime candidates to lock in some extra years for some guaranteed money.
    I'm not too surprised.

    The plan that always seemed to be in character for Shatkins would be to squeeze every last bit of cheap service out of them, and then ship them out for prospects as soon as they really need to get paid. Saves Rogers money, and gets Shatkins the sweet, sweet prospect depth that they covet.
    Ill trade five ordinary players for one great player any day. You can always find ordinary players. - Conn Smythe

  14. #86314
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    Default Re: OT: The Toronto Blue Jays

    Quote Originally Posted by LeafGm View Post
    I'm not too surprised.

    The plan that always seemed to be in character for Shatkins would be to squeeze every last bit of cheap service out of them, and then ship them out for prospects as soon as they really need to get paid. Saves Rogers money, and gets Shatkins the sweet, sweet prospect depth that they covet.
    Although that's not really what they did in Cleveland. They signed their young pitchers to long team-friendly deals there.

  15. #86315
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    Default Re: OT: The Toronto Blue Jays

    Are Sanchez ( a Boras client) or Stroman ( shoulder issues) guys that we for sure want locked up as much as we did 2 years ago for the prices they will command?

  16. #86316
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    Default Re: OT: The Toronto Blue Jays

    Quote Originally Posted by MyNameIsJonas View Post
    Are Sanchez ( a Boras client) or Stroman ( shoulder issues) guys that we for sure want locked up as much as we did 2 years ago for the prices they will command?
    I wouldn't do it now. The time to do it would have been 2 years ago, yes.

  17. #86317
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    Default Re: OT: The Toronto Blue Jays

    might be a great buy low opportunity for both.
    #FreeVladdy

  18. #86318
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    Default Re: OT: The Toronto Blue Jays

    Boras and buy low don't mix.

    Also, if we aren't extending them, shouldn't we consider moving them now with the most term left on a trade for other teams.

    They have 2 years under control after this one and at minimum 2019 looks like a punt, 2020 could be different, but also possibly too early.

    If Stroman comes back healthy and Sanchez continues to look better they should look at moving either one, now or in the winter if they aren't extending

  19. #86319
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    Default Re: OT: The Toronto Blue Jays

    Quote Originally Posted by MyNameIsJonas View Post
    Boras and buy low don't mix.

    Also, if we aren't extending them, shouldn't we consider moving them now with the most term left on a trade for other teams.

    They have 2 years under control after this one and at minimum 2019 looks like a punt, 2020 could be different, but also possibly too early.

    If Stroman comes back healthy and Sanchez continues to look better they should look at moving either one, now or in the winter if they aren't extending
    Yeah, you definitely have to start listening. While they're young enough to still be part of the core, they're also the only guys who are really going to bring back a premium for us, to potentially jumpstart the rebuild.

    Fangraphs talked about it briefly here: https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-...plan-for-2020/
    The Blue Jays’ future resides at Double-A, and it’s not that far away. And perhaps rather than looking at 2018 as a failed shot at contention, it can now be looked upon as an opportunity to add to the next core. By selling short-term control assets now, the Blue Jays can shorten their downturn. Now, this might be easier said than done in a landscape of sellers, but there will be buyers. Considering that the first sellers to the market might have an advantage, now is the time to sell in Toronto.

  20. #86320
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    Default Re: OT: The Toronto Blue Jays

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainBolduke View Post
    The Jays payroll is (was anyway) higher than mid-tier.
    Nope.
    The amount of energy necessary to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude larger than is required to produce it.

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