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OT: The Toronto Blue Jays

I wish the #BlueJays would do something significant. It's been a quiet 3 off-seasons in a row now. The biggest offseason acquisition they've made during that time has been JA Happ.
 
baseball prospectus top-101 has 3 jays:

#4 Vladdy
#19 Bo
#58 Alford

fangrapghs top-100 has 5 jays

#3 Vladdy
#9 Bo
#36 Alford
#71 Jansen
#76 Pearson


fangraphs is the first list that I think treats the jays prospects accurately.
 
Don't think anyone posted the Jays from Keith Law's new Top 100, but they are:

#2 - Vladimir Guerrero
# 17 - Bo Bichette
# 44 - Anthony Alford
# 100 - Nate Pearson
 
Only two weeks left before ST games start, and so many good/decent starting pitching options out there.

Will the Jays sign one or will this be the first time Shatkins doesn't sign a supposed "impact" player.
 
CaptainBolduke said:
Only two weeks left before ST games start, and so many good/decent starting pitching options out there.

Will the Jays sign one or will this be the first time Shatkins doesn't sign a supposed "impact" player.
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Theyll get one, but not Darvish, Lynn, Cobb or Arrieta.

In fact Atkins said as much he expects it to be a trade over FA

I think their goal is to get 2 SP, one via trade that has some control and one, like Tillman or some such who they can get on a minor league deal and stash in AAA

The FA after the big 4 don't inspire a lot of confidence. Maybe Jaime Garcia, who's peripherals were really close to Sabathia, who they wanted in the first place? Maybe a Vargas? There are also enough OF out there where they could trade Pillar for a SP, sign an OF and use Grichuk in CF until Alford is ready, or Carrera in a corner until Alford is ready.
 
MyNameIsJonas said:
Theyll get one, but not Darvish, Lynn, Cobb or Arrieta.

In fact Atkins said as much he expects it to be a trade over FA

I think their goal is to get 2 SP, one via trade that has some control and one, like Tillman or some such who they can get on a minor league deal and stash in AAA

The FA after the big 4 don't inspire a lot of confidence. Maybe Jaime Garcia, who's peripherals were really close to Sabathia, who they wanted in the first place? Maybe a Vargas? There are also enough OF out there where they could trade Pillar for a SP, sign an OF and use Grichuk in CF until Alford is ready, or Carrera in a corner until Alford is ready.
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I think the whole SP market is basically waiting for Darvish to sign, so that the rest of the dominoes can fall. But Darvish is waiting to sign until he knows for sure whether the Dodgers can take him back or not. But the Dodgers can't give him an offer unless if they can get someone to take Matt Kemp off their hands. So the whole SP market is waiting for Matt Freaking Kemp.
 
Considering the Jays have very little money on the books after this season, I'm under the impression that the plan going forward is to have a reduced payroll.

So much for if we come they will spend.
 
CaptainBolduke said:
Considering the Jays have very little money on the books after this season, I'm under the impression that the plan going forward is to have a reduced payroll.

So much for if we come they will spend.
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Seriously, I hate being a freaking defender of this team all the time, but can we wait until they actually are cheap-asses before thinking that they'll tank to high heavens? Just because they don't seem to want to saddle the team with longer dead money deals doesn't mean they're going to be cutting payroll. We've got 55M committed for 2019, and between all the options and arbitration deals, probably up to over 100M already, with the need to replace JD, Happ, and Estrada. Basically, they're not going to be able to significantly cut payroll next year.

At PitchTalks last week, Atkins really did seem to want to bring back Donaldson, and between that and another event that I saw Shi Davidi speak at the week before, I'm more and more optimistic that JD actually wants to be back on the Jays too. The flaw is how far apart the teams are in terms of money, which might be significant. But Atkins was also very frank saying that there was a "walk-away" number that they won't go above.

So yeah, Rogers kind of sucks. Atkins also mentioned that being owned by a big company means that they don't have the "flexibility" that other teams have (ie. an owner who says "**** it, I want to win, here's another 30M to spend"). Obviously would have been nice to not have to have the GM go betting to the corporate overlords like AA had to do a couple years ago, but I don't think the plans going to forward will be to drastically cut payroll or anything.
 
UWHabs said:
Seriously, I hate being a freaking defender of this team all the time, but can we wait until they actually are cheap-asses before thinking that they'll tank to high heavens? Just because they don't seem to want to saddle the team with longer dead money deals doesn't mean they're going to be cutting payroll. We've got 55M committed for 2019, and between all the options and arbitration deals, probably up to over 100M already, with the need to replace JD, Happ, and Estrada. Basically, they're not going to be able to significantly cut payroll next year.

At PitchTalks last week, Atkins really did seem to want to bring back Donaldson, and between that and another event that I saw Shi Davidi speak at the week before, I'm more and more optimistic that JD actually wants to be back on the Jays too. The flaw is how far apart the teams are in terms of money, which might be significant. But Atkins was also very frank saying that there was a "walk-away" number that they won't go above.

So yeah, Rogers kind of sucks. Atkins also mentioned that being owned by a big company means that they don't have the "flexibility" that other teams have (ie. an owner who says "**** it, I want to win, here's another 30M to spend"). Obviously would have been nice to not have to have the GM go betting to the corporate overlords like AA had to do a couple years ago, but I don't think the plans going to forward will be to drastically cut payroll or anything.
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You missed the underlining point.

The payroll has gone up every year for nearly 10 years.

It's odd that now after the fans show up the payroll is projected to remain stagnant or decrease. That's my issue. You didn't need to write that essay. And yes, you should feel dirty for constantly defending Shatkins.
 
zeke said:
Jared Diamond
@jareddiamond
Thought this was a particularly salient point by one agent, about how fans now are willing to accept their favorite team tanking because they've been conditioned to view it as "good business." Owners continue to win the PR war over the players. https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-ri...seballs-hot-stove-market-1517928548?mod=e2tws
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Yup.

And it's a great time for the Jays because they've increased viewership and attendance. Pull the plug on the yearly increases when the product is hot.

Good business.
 
The rebuilds are working though in terms of world series wins and overall competitiveness.
Boras needs to stop his whining. Teams have learned from his B.S.
 
JackBurton said:
The rebuilds are working though in terms of world series wins and overall competitiveness.
Boras needs to stop his whining. Teams have learned from his B.S.
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On the one hand, I agree. Boras is self-serving, and it's perfectly understandable that teams would not want to overpay for the declining years of older players.

But on the other hand, the owners can't have their cake and eat it too. Under baseball's current system, quality young MLB players get ****ed pretty hard. Marcus Stroman, Aaron Sanchez and Roberto Osuna, for example, all make less money than the lowest-paid member of the Toronto Maple Leafs, in a sport that brings in significantly more money than hockey.

The trade-off that makes that system work fine for everybody is that those young guys can bank on making up for their underpaid years by cashing in big once they get to free agency. But if the owners are screwing the young players for every last penny when they're young, and then when those players are finally old enough to cash in on free agency, they're telling them en masse that the sport is trending younger, and they're not going to overpay for older players when they can use cheap young guys instead...then the agents and the players have legitimate grounds for complaint.
 
LeafGm said:
On the one hand, I agree. Boras is self-serving, and it's perfectly understandable that teams would not want to overpay for the declining years of older players.

But on the other hand, the owners can't have their cake and eat it too. Under baseball's current system, quality young MLB players get ****ed pretty hard. Marcus Stroman, Aaron Sanchez and Roberto Osuna, for example, all make less money than the lowest-paid member of the Toronto Maple Leafs, in a sport that brings in significantly more money than hockey.

The trade-off that makes that system work fine for everybody is that those young guys can bank on making up for their underpaid years by cashing in big once they get to free agency. But if the owners are screwing the young players for every last penny when they're young, and then when those players are finally old enough to cash in on free agency, they're telling them en masse that the sport is trending younger, and they're not going to overpay for older players when they can use cheap young guys instead...then the agents and the players have legitimate grounds for complaint.
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Totally agree. Wouldn't be surprised if we see another strike.
 
Coaching and all sorts of advanced know how has made the learning curve for young players a lot steeper than 30 yrs ago. They reach their prime a lot younger. At some rules involving entry level contracts, arbitration and free agency eligibility will have to reflect that.
 
LeafGm said:
On the one hand, I agree. Boras is self-serving, and it's perfectly understandable that teams would not want to overpay for the declining years of older players.

But on the other hand, the owners can't have their cake and eat it too. Under baseball's current system, quality young MLB players get ****ed pretty hard. Marcus Stroman, Aaron Sanchez and Roberto Osuna, for example, all make less money than the lowest-paid member of the Toronto Maple Leafs, in a sport that brings in significantly more money than hockey.

The trade-off that makes that system work fine for everybody is that those young guys can bank on making up for their underpaid years by cashing in big once they get to free agency. But if the owners are screwing the young players for every last penny when they're young, and then when those players are finally old enough to cash in on free agency, they're telling them en masse that the sport is trending younger, and they're not going to overpay for older players when they can use cheap young guys instead...then the agents and the players have legitimate grounds for complaint.
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I hear what you're saying, but it's not factual. Osuna will make $5.5 million this year and Stroman will make around $7.5 million (Stroman made 3.4 last year).

The guy that has been massively underpaid throughout his career has been Donaldson - and he's 30, while still making over 20 million this season.
 
CaptainBolduke said:
I hear what you're saying, but it's not factual. Osuna will make $5.5 million this year and Stroman will make around $7.5 million (Stroman made 3.4 last year).

The guy that has been massively underpaid throughout his career has been Donaldson - and he's 30, while still making over 20 million this season.
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You are correct. I just ran a quick google search on their salaries when writing that post, and for whatever reason, it came up that each was making in the neighbourhood of 500K.

Still, the point remains. The owners can't take the position that players are only worth paying when they're young and in the prime of their careers, and then maintain a system that makes it impossible for those players to hit the open market, or get paid anywhere close to their true market values until the primes of the careers are either already over, or close to being over.
 
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