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OT: The Toronto Blue Jays

CaptainBolduke said:
Vladdy Jr. is the Jays version of Manny Machado. He will not be a Blue Jay when he is 26 years old.

Shatkins has publicly said that they don't plan on trying to contend until 2021. That means the Vaddy Jr. window is only 3 years.

Think about that and try not to get pissed off.
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There's a better chance that Vladdy is playing for us when he's 26 than there is of Shatkins still being around when he's 26.

And timelines change all the time. The Braves were still a couple years away in their rebuild but, surprise, their kids came and helped out immediately and suddenly they win their division. So yeah, a "safe" timeline has us starting to contend in 2021 and competing through Vlad's arbitration years. But maybe he comes up sooner and we're back in it sooner than that. At least at this point, if management is saying it will take 2-3 years to get back in it, they're not going to waste trying to rush guys, which is at least the right thing to do. Yes, we absolutely should have started a year or two ago. But we didn't.
 
Mark my words. Vladdy was dicked around due to the team (Shapiro is a massive part of this) due to service time. He will be dicked around and need to go through arbitration during his time in TO. He will leave as a free agent when he is 26 or traded for prospects when he is 25/26.

Vladdy won't be a Blue Jay for very long. He is our Manny Machado.
 
CaptainBolduke said:
Mark my words. Vladdy was dicked around due to the team (Shapiro is a massive part of this) due to service time. He will be dicked around and need to go through arbitration during his time in TO. He will leave as a free agent when he is 26 or traded for prospects when he is 25/26.

Vladdy won't be a Blue Jay for very long. He is our Manny Machado.
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Yeah, I would expect that. Hopefully we can make the most of the 7 seasons we have him.
 
UWHabs said:
There's a better chance that Vladdy is playing for us when he's 26 than there is of Shatkins still being around when he's 26.

And timelines change all the time. The Braves were still a couple years away in their rebuild but, surprise, their kids came and helped out immediately and suddenly they win their division. So yeah, a "safe" timeline has us starting to contend in 2021 and competing through Vlad's arbitration years. But maybe he comes up sooner and we're back in it sooner than that. At least at this point, if management is saying it will take 2-3 years to get back in it, they're not going to waste trying to rush guys, which is at least the right thing to do. Yes, we absolutely should have started a year or two ago. But we didn't.
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This. Another 7 years? Doubt he last a decade here.
 
ugh.... We just talked about how they are shooting for 2021 to "compete" again. The Vladdy window will be 3 years.

They've already said that they are not going to be involved in the best FA class in history - and there will be no Christian Yelich's available for trade.

The refusal to spend money on legit players is going to kill this administration.

And don't give me this BS about how it's good to not get high WAR, high priced FAs (or via trade). Just look at Boston's rotation and closer.
 
CaptainBolduke said:
ugh.... We just talked about how they are shooting for 2021 to "compete" again. The Vladdy window will be 3 years.

They've already said that they are not going to be involved in the best FA class in history - and there will be no Christian Yelich's available for trade.

The refusal to spend money on legit players is going to kill this administration.

And don't give me this BS about how it's good to not get high WAR, high priced FAs (or via trade). Just look at Boston's rotation and closer.
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We will have Vlad under team control for 7 seasons (next year, 2 renewals at <1M, and then 4 times through arbitration, assuming we delay until mid-April to call him up). Even under your words of shooting for 2021 to compete, that's only throwing 2 seasons (2019 and 2020), meaning we still have 5 years in the Vlad "window" to be competitive. Yes, that is not his entire career, but we don't know if Vlad would have committed for life if only we had been nicer to him.

And yeah, for sure if the admin doesn't want to spend on talent, then we'll suck. But news flash - we're going to suck next year no matter what they do! They could sign both Harper and Kershaw and that would still probably only get us to the low 80s for wins. The fact is this team is going to suck for 2 years no matter who was in charge.

Now, do I have faith that this team will guide us through the rebuild and come out in 2-3 years ready to compete? No. No I don't. And it's frustrating, and a large part of the reason why I only made it out to 3 games at the dome all season. Hopefully they'll come back in a couple years and be more willing to spend, and be willing to compete with the big boys of the division (or at least be creative enough to compete with Tampa). I'm not hopeful, but honestly that's all we can do now. At least we have a bunch of big prospects ready to make their mark soon, so there's always the chance as I keep maintaining that guys like Vlad+Bo are simply too good that Shatkins can't screw the team over.
 
anne25 said:
I'm having flashbacks to the Interbrew years.
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At least intrebrew had a few excuses. They acquired the Jays when they bought Labatt's, so the Jays were really just a throw in. They didn't want to be in the sports management business. Rogers sought out the Jays as an asset to own. Rogers has buried horseshit for the sake of the wireless & SN divisions in the Jays books since they bought them (the Jays have always had a well, well below market broadcasting contract with SN, and their advertising revenue never seems to line up with the amount of Rogers products thrown at the fanbase, at least in comparison to what other large market clubs are receiving)

But the fanbase is finally starting to turn on them, so they'll sell within the next few years.
 
UWHabs said:
We will have Vlad under team control for 7 seasons (next year, 2 renewals at <1M, and then 4 times through arbitration, assuming we delay until mid-April to call him up). Even under your words of shooting for 2021 to compete, that's only throwing 2 seasons (2019 and 2020), meaning we still have 5 years in the Vlad "window" to be competitive. Yes, that is not his entire career, but we don't know if Vlad would have committed for life if only we had been nicer to him.

And yeah, for sure if the admin doesn't want to spend on talent, then we'll suck. But news flash - we're going to suck next year no matter what they do! They could sign both Harper and Kershaw and that would still probably only get us to the low 80s for wins. The fact is this team is going to suck for 2 years no matter who was in charge.

Now, do I have faith that this team will guide us through the rebuild and come out in 2-3 years ready to compete? No. No I don't. And it's frustrating, and a large part of the reason why I only made it out to 3 games at the dome all season. Hopefully they'll come back in a couple years and be more willing to spend, and be willing to compete with the big boys of the division (or at least be creative enough to compete with Tampa). I'm not hopeful, but honestly that's all we can do now. At least we have a bunch of big prospects ready to make their mark soon, so there's always the chance as I keep maintaining that guys like Vlad+Bo are simply too good that Shatkins can't screw the team over.
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This team is going to be in transition for 2-3 years , there is no need to spend on high priced players in UFA .

Most of these moves end up in disasters like Dexter Fowler .

It’s all about player development . This team was going to hit the wall in 2017 and beyond . Too old , slow , and a prospect pool that needed major help . Most of that 23-25 man roster in 2016 was done with us in a few years .

Previous regimes fooked up as we didn’t draft and develop any core positional players over a decade plus.

You need a better base of players before you start spending again .
 
GEEMAN said:
This team is going to be in transition for 2-3 years , there is no need to spend on high priced players in UFA .

Most of these moves end up in disasters like Dexter Fowler .

It’s all about player development . This team was going to hit the wall in 2017 and beyond . Too old , slow , and a prospect pool that needed major help . Most of that 23-25 man roster in 2016 was done with us in a few years .

Previous regimes fooked up as we didn’t draft and develop any core positional players over a decade plus.

You need a better base of players before you start spending again .
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it is like you have been watching a different team all season. and seemingly are wilfully blind to facts. but keep sticking to your narrative.
 
Nice of the organization to finally decide to reveal the Gibby news a few hours before his last home game.
This management team is ridiculous.
 
zeke said:
interview was way way better than rogers.
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interbrew, I mean.

Interbrew (6 seasons):

Inherited Team: .478w%
Overall Record: .488w%
Final Team: .512w%
Major FA Signings: Clemens, Canseco, Myers

Rogers (18 seasons)

Inherited Team: .512w%
Overall Record: .497w%
Current Team: .453w%
Major FA Signings: Martin, Burnett, Thomas, Ryan
 
JackBurton said:
Nice of the organization to finally decide to reveal the Gibby news a few hours before his last home game.
This management team is ridiculous.
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Honestly, that was actually the best decision to make about it.
-Gibby stays on the whole year, and doesn't get fired mid-season.
-Officially announcing it a few weeks ago basically doesn't do anything. I mean, we all knew it, but not like they gain anything by announcing it then.
-At least giving before the last game gives the fans a chance to officially cheer him on.

I mean, sure, they could have simply officially announced it a couple weeks ago when all the rumours started up. Maybe it would save him a couple questions from reporters about "are you going to be back next year", but nothing really would have changed of late. As Gibby joked, it's not like it was a well kept secret, so really didn't come as a shock to anyone.
 
Gibby was openly talking about it. Everyone knew. They obviously made the decision already and wanted to keep it quiet. But they couldn't even do that effectively.
 
UWHabs said:
We will have Vlad under team control for 7 seasons (next year, 2 renewals at <1M, and then 4 times through arbitration, assuming we delay until mid-April to call him up). Even under your words of shooting for 2021 to compete, that's only throwing 2 seasons (2019 and 2020), meaning we still have 5 years in the Vlad "window" to be competitive. Yes, that is not his entire career, but we don't know if Vlad would have committed for life if only we had been nicer to him.

And yeah, for sure if the admin doesn't want to spend on talent, then we'll suck. But news flash - we're going to suck next year no matter what they do! They could sign both Harper and Kershaw and that would still probably only get us to the low 80s for wins. The fact is this team is going to suck for 2 years no matter who was in charge.

Now, do I have faith that this team will guide us through the rebuild and come out in 2-3 years ready to compete? No. No I don't. And it's frustrating, and a large part of the reason why I only made it out to 3 games at the dome all season. Hopefully they'll come back in a couple years and be more willing to spend, and be willing to compete with the big boys of the division (or at least be creative enough to compete with Tampa). I'm not hopeful, but honestly that's all we can do now. At least we have a bunch of big prospects ready to make their mark soon, so there's always the chance as I keep maintaining that guys like Vlad+Bo are simply too good that Shatkins can't screw the team over.
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This is all nice and stuff, but Vladdy likely isn't a Jay when he is 26 years old. He will be traded for prospects or move on as a Free Agent at that time. At best this team will be ready to compete against Boston and NY in 2021 (assuming they decide to spend money).

The argument that the Jays have to suck now just because Tulo and Martin are on the team is complete and utter bullshit. Shatkins HAS spent money, and a lot of it. 2-3 WAR for $80 million over the last two years.

The real Vladdy window is 3 years based on what I am seeing from Shatkins now.
 
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