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OT: The Toronto Blue Jays

They once traded the best position player this team has ever drafted for 5 wins from David cone and nobody complains about it.

Nobody decried the losses of glenallen hill and mark Witten even tho candioti didn't pan out (maybe just don't trade for knucklers(
 
You haven't seen me give baseball advice either.

This is a message board where people can chat. It's not a place where fatties and other outcasts get to vent their frustrations through unprovoked insults from behind the safety of their screens.
 
mbow30 said:
They once traded the best position player this team has ever drafted for 5 wins from David cone and nobody complains about it.
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Yeah exactly. The offense is so damn good with Donaldson/Baustisa/EE in their primes. Would be a shame to not got for it and miss the playoffs again.
 
leafman101 said:
Yeah exactly. The offense is so damn good with Donaldson/Baustisa/EE in their primes. Would be a shame to not got for it and miss the playoffs again.
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I can't say I disagree with that, but I also don't think this year is our only window.

What if Norris and Hoffman unexpectedly graduate next year like Syndergaard did this year? If they can provide solid middle of the rotation stuff early on in their careers, they'll have a few more years of Bats and EE to do it in.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
I can't say I disagree with that, but I also don't think this year is our only window.

What if Norris and Hoffman unexpectedly graduate next year like Syndergaard did this year? If they can provide solid middle of the rotation stuff early on in their careers, they'll have a few more years of Bats and EE to do it in.
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I agree its not their only year. All the more reason to add someone in their prime over prospects.

The Snydergaard trade looks bad now, but it wouldn't if we had gotten a Price-type instead of Dickey. And when we had Snydergaard he was one of 3 top arms with Sanchez and Wojciechowski. You can add Nicolino to that too. Point being that most of these guys won't pan out. You just have to try to pick the Snydergaard to keep. At this point that looks like Hoffman.
 
leafman101 said:
Yeah exactly. The offense is so damn good with Donaldson/Baustisa/EE in their primes. Would be a shame to not got for it and miss the playoffs again.
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My question, as a very casual follower of the Blue Jays: what's the end goal of going out and acquiring "help" for this team?

If this team gets an ace and some bullpen help, is that realistically going to make them a championship contender when they're a .500 team about 60% of the way through the regular season? Or is the idea here to jump on a weak AL East and the chance to just get into the playoffs, and end this team's 20+ year playoff drought?
 
LeafGm said:
If this team gets an ace and some bullpen help, is that realistically going to make them a championship contender when they're a .500 team about 60% of the way through the regular season? Or is the idea here to jump on a weak AL East and the chance to just get into the playoffs, and end this team's 20+ year playoff drought?
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Yes I think so. They have arguably the best offense in baseball. They should capitalize one that. The bats could win a series on their own. They have the second best run differential in the majors with one of the worst pitching staffs. We've seen that they are unbeatable when the hitting is on.

It would be a shame to waste that opportunity and not build the matching staff. Adding a legit ace would be a huge 5-6 WAR addition to the staff. Plus you add stroman next year, if not this year and you are replacing two replaceable level starters with two front of the rotation ones. It would make a big difference IMO. Enough to be legit contenders.
 
Once they are in the playoffs they shorten the rotation and the offense hopefully continues its success.

We have for next season Hutchison and Stroman as 2/5 of the rotation. We can potentially pencil in 1 rookie which leaves us 2 spots to acquire reliable top of the rotation pitching. Hutchison hasn't developed this season the way we had hoped. Stroman was a guy i thought would struggle in his 2nd season in the MLB so i wouldn't be surprised to see him go either way next year. We still will have Marco Estrada under contract so he's a guy that might fill in if someone doesn't do well or gets hurt. Between Aaron Sanchez, Daniel Norris and Jeff Hoffman i see 1 MAYBE 2 of them really making the rotation next season. We still need that stud ace and with Dickey and Buerhle leaving we should have the available money.

I wouldn't want a guy we can't resign if we are moving one of our prospects. Hell maybe they move Hutchison if we can get an upgrade.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
I can't say I disagree with that, but I also don't think this year is our only window.

What if Norris and Hoffman unexpectedly graduate next year like Syndergaard did this year? If they can provide solid middle of the rotation stuff early on in their careers, they'll have a few more years of Bats and EE to do it in.
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You see, these What If scenarios are exactly why this team has an offence for the now and a staff for the future. What if Norris becomes the world beater that we think he can, what if Stroman takes the helm and becomes our ace, what if Hutch corrects his unbalanced track record and becomes a top notch starter that we expect him to be, what if Castro becomes a can't hit against closer. What if all of that happens at the same time this year.

Truth is that you don't go with what ifs when you have a smaller window like this. The result is a below 500 team.
Small window means you bring proven talent.
 
leafman101 said:
I agree its not their only year. All the more reason to add someone in their prime over prospects.

The Snydergaard trade looks bad now, but it wouldn't if we had gotten a Price-type instead of Dickey. And when we had Snydergaard he was one of 3 top arms with Sanchez and Wojciechowski. You can add Nicolino to that too. Point being that most of these guys won't pan out. You just have to try to pick the Snydergaard to keep. At this point that looks like Hoffman.
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But haven't we done that? I honestly can't even remember all the youth we traded out in recent years in the Reyes, Dickey, Donaldson (and other?) deals, but it seems we're now down to our last, best arms in Norris, Hoffman, Sanchez, and Stroman. We've already seen that Stroman and Sanchez can perform at a high level, and there doesn't seem to be much doubt that Norris and Hoffman will too in the near future. It would be a shame to lose any of them.

If Pompey can do it, he should be the centerpiece of any package.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
But haven't we done that? I honestly can't even remember all the youth we traded out in recent years in the Reyes, Dickey, Donaldson (and other?) deals, but it seems we're now down to our last, best arms in Norris, Hoffman, Sanchez, and Stroman. We've already seen that Stroman and Sanchez can perform at a high level, and there doesn't seem to be much doubt that Norris and Hoffman will too in the near future. It would be a shame to lose any of them.

If Pompey can do it, he should be the centerpiece of any package.
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Nah. When they made those deals they had Sanchez, Wojcinowski, Nicolino and Snydergaard as the top 4 arms in the system. They drafted Stroman the same year, Hoffman last year, and Norris developed so now they have Sanchez, Norris, Stroman and Hoffman as the top arms. The system replenishes. Its not like there won't be another draft next year, or none of the 100 kids they picked in 2014/15 will develop into legit prospects.

They could move Pompey, Sanchez and Norris for an ace and be fine. And I don't think they'd have to give up that much.

I am way less concerned about the prospect system and 3-4 years down the road, than I am not wasting any more years of Donaldson/Bautista/EE's prime. The team is built to win now, not 5 years from now.
 
leafman101 said:
Nah. When they made those deals they had Sanchez, Wojcinowski, Nicolino and Snydergaard as the top 4 arms in the system. They drafted Stroman the same year, Hoffman last year, and Norris developed so now they have Sanchez, Norris, Stroman and Hoffman as the top arms. The system replenishes. Its not like there won't be another draft next year, or none of the 100 kids they picked in 2014/15 will develop into legit prospects.

They could move Pompey, Sanchez and Norris for an ace and be fine. And I don't think they'd have to give up that much.

I am way less concerned about the prospect system and 3-4 years down the road, than I am not wasting any more years of Donaldson/Bautista/EE's prime. The team is built to win now, not 5 years from now.
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Agreed. Lower one of those 3 guys down to a couple of A ballers and it's a fair deal for both sides.
 
From a pure rental standpoint i can't think of a better package than Price/Cespedes.

Eliminates our 2 biggest needs IMO, cost would and should be absurd.
 
Heh, blowing up the system for one maybe shot at doing something.

That's the type of decision that painful rebuilds start with.

This ****ing franchise is a joke.
 
As an aside:

Drew Fairservice
‏@DrewGROF
Prospects are for poor people BUT Anthony Alford has the second highest wRC+ in the Florida State League rn (min 100 PA). He's 20.

I don't want to trade this guy. He's our only legit "5 tools" guy and he's getting good fast.
 
MindzEye said:
Heh, blowing up the system for one maybe shot at doing something.

That's the type of decision that painful rebuilds start with.

This ****ing franchise is a joke.
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Chill.

I don't see the need for Cespedes but getting an ace should be at the top of our wishlist. If we can squeeze out a veteran closer along with an ace i would be thrilled. If we are moving out Sanchez/Norris + Pompey we will be getting a legit ace i feel.
 
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