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OT: The Toronto Blue Jays

GEEMAN said:
What future or roster assets was he going to give up 2 years ago at the deadline to remotely put us over the top
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Alford maybe (but probably wouldn't need to trade someone like him)? A few other random prospects? Not for me to decide. That's the GM's job.

Or do a better job in the off-season leading up to the 2016 season? You figure it out when you're that close obviously.

No matter how you spin it. Shatkins has been bad. They haven't rebuilt, re-tooled or traded major assets. They've done nothing except sign/traded for random cheap players like Solarte, Diaz, Granderson, Smoak, Grichuk, Hernandez (he's serviceable) Garcia and Morales.

They've done essentially nothing.
 
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GEEMAN said:
What future or roster assets was he going to give up 2 years ago at the deadline to remotely put us over the top
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Players that could have improved us?

Steve Pearce was traded for a 20 yr old catching prospect with a 65 wRC+ in A+
Ivan Nova was traded for the corpse of Jon Niese
Josh Fields would have been a great add to the bullpen, and the cost was a 18 yr old 1B prospect (who is a top 50 prospect now, in fairness)
Beltran went for a semi bust 1st former top 5 pick and stuff
Zach Duke went for a scrub prospect


I don't think anyone expected us to spend big on the Chapman's, or Andrew Miller's that were available (and came at a heavy as **** price), but we targeted Melvin Upton, and Francisco Liriano. So it's not like we were spending money wisely there, and it's not like we received much of **** all from the acquisitions. There were players available that could have helped shore up the bullpen and bench, which were both problems with that club. Too many AB's going to empty AB's like Zeke, 2nd half Saunders, pre break out Smoak, Goins, Barney, etc.

and yeah, that's only at the deadline. The team had pretty clear holes prior to that, which went unaddressed all season.
 
MindzEye said:
Players that could have improved us?

Steve Pearce was traded for a 20 yr old catching prospect with a 65 wRC+ in A+
Ivan Nova was traded for the corpse of Jon Niese
Josh Fields would have been a great add to the bullpen, and the cost was a 18 yr old 1B prospect (who is a top 50 prospect now, in fairness)
Beltran went for a semi bust 1st former top 5 pick and stuff
Zach Duke went for a scrub prospect


I don't think anyone expected us to spend big on the Chapman's, or Andrew Miller's that were available (and came at a heavy as **** price), but we targeted Melvin Upton, and Francisco Liriano. So it's not like we were spending money wisely there, and it's not like we received much of **** all from the acquisitions. There were players available that could have helped shore up the bullpen and bench, which were both problems with that club. Too many AB's going to empty AB's like Zeke, 2nd half Saunders, pre break out Smoak, Goins, Barney, etc.

and yeah, that's only at the deadline. The team had pretty clear holes prior to that, which went unaddressed all season.
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Shatkins has never had a plan to win with AA's team. In 2016, the Jays won the WC, ALDS and made the ALCS despite Shatkins.
 
The management is so risk averse they won't trade anyone they think has even a small chance of turning into a good player. And while I'm sure it's not actually their goal, they also seem to target almost exclusively players with very limited upside. It's a terrible combination. Also happens to be the opposite of AA's approach.
 
manny said:
The management is so risk averse they won't trade anyone they think has even a small chance of turning into a good player. And while I'm sure it's not actually their goal, they also seem to target almost exclusively players with very limited upside. It's a terrible combination. Also happens to be the opposite of AA's approach.
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I'm just hoping that Rogers sells the team before Vladdy is of free agency age and that the new Pres/GM that replaces Shatkins has a set of marbles.
 
If not, it's going to be a bleak decade. I don't think these guys have what it takes to put together a competitive team, even if a bunch of the prospects hit their 95th percentile projection. They don't target the right skills and so far they've allocated a pretty generous payroll very inefficiently. Shapiro is President, he probably gets at least 10 years and one GM change under Rogers, and he's the main problem.
 
nah I think the rebuild will go well and in a few years we'll have a nice young team.

but that doesn't excuse them throwing away the elite team they inherited without even trying.....and I also have little faith in them pushing their chips in down the line when we have a chance to contend again.
 
zeke said:
nah I think the rebuild will go well and in a few years we'll have a nice young team.

but that doesn't excuse them throwing away the elite team they inherited without even trying.....and I also have little faith in them pushing their chips in down the line when we have a chance to contend again.
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We'll see if they make any good trades in the next month and a half. That would be a sign of having some competence to lead a proper rebuild. If they sit on their hands, or continue to make the kind of low upside deals they've made the last two deadlines, it won't be encouraging. They should sell everyone with two or less years of service time remaining and they should start soon. Anyone of any value that isn't going to be an important part of the team starting in 2021 should be on the block (meaning every RP as well as guys like Pillar, Grichuk, Smoak, maybe Stroman and Sanchez).

I expect that Shapiro will mostly stand pat, maybe make few minor, low-risk deals right before the deadline.
 
oh Kelly...

TORONTO (AP) The Canadian Baseball Hall of Fame pulled Kelly Gruber from its induction weekend festivities after the former Toronto Blue Jays third baseman made an awkward appearance during a Pitch Talks panel discussion a day earlier.

Gruber was briefly on stage at the Homestand Sports event Thursday night with host Ashley Docking and Rogers Sportsnet broadcaster Kevin Barker in Toronto. In a joint statement Friday, the Hall of Fame and Pitch Talks said the proceedings were stopped 45 minutes early due to Gruber's "unacceptable and inappropriate behavior."

"Basically what happened was by the time he got on stage he appeared to be inebriated," said Homestand Sports founder Kevin Kennedy. "He was just acting sort of obnoxious, kind of erratic, he was confrontational with our host, Ashley, and quite quickly I knew that this wasn't going in the right direction."

Gruber was one of several former Blue Jays chosen to participate in various Hall events in the lead-up to Saturday's ceremony in Ontario, where former major league stars Pedro Martinez and Lloyd Moseby will be inducted along with baseball historian William Humber.

Gruber's representative, Don Graham, emailed a statement from the former player to The Canadian Press on Friday evening.

"There's two sides to every story and I would love to tell mine," Gruber said. "Maybe what I said was taken the wrong way. My intention for being there was to honor my teammate and buddy Lloyd, and the interview part went south for a variety of reasons which I will detail at a later date."

The 56-year-old Gruber made his big league debut with the Blue Jays in 1984. He won a World Series with Toronto in 1992 and ended his career with the Angels the following year.
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Starting to get excited for the first time this season now that the sell off is coming.

Hope we can turn some of these vets into a couple of good young players.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
Starting to get excited for the first time this season now that the sell off is coming.

Hope we can turn some of these vets into a couple of good young players.
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The sweeps the last 2 weekends don't help, but the chatter is definitely high.

Of course, from what I've read, Happ should bring a legit return back, but unless if Donaldson gets back and mashes, I don't know if the market will be there for him. The return for him might not actually be that much more than what we'd get back from a qualifying offer, so I'm thinking we might hang on to him through the season, or at least through the deadline and maybe try to work out an August deal. Maybe with a QO over his head, we try to bring him back for like a 1 year/30M deal or something for next year, when he'll be out of the massive FA class and then won't have a QO to worry about either.
 
Shapiro has a lot of experience with deadline selloffs because he managed many bad teams in Cleveland that were out of contention early. Kluber, Carrasco, Brantley and Carlos Santana were all prospects that came back in deadline deals. Hopefully they can pull that off here.
 
manny said:
Shapiro has a lot of experience with deadline selloffs because he managed many bad teams in Cleveland that were out of contention early. Kluber, Carrasco, Brantley and Carlos Santana were all prospects that came back in deadline deals. Hopefully they can pull that off here.
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I'll take another Teoscar Hernandez. If we can turn Happ into that, that's a win for us.
 
UWHabs said:
I'll take another Teoscar Hernandez. If we can turn Happ into that, that's a win for us.
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I'd prefer they aim higher. Teoscar looks good at times, but he is very limited defensively and doesn't get on base. Realistically, his ceiling is probably a 2-win player. Decent complimentary piece,but not going to win you anything.

I'd rather they trade for higher risk prospects with more upside.
 
Last Calendar Year Update:

1.LF Granderson 484pa, 121wrc+, 2.8war650
2.3B Donaldson 547pa, 130wrc+, 5.0war650
3.RF Hernandez 333pa, 133wrc+, 3.3war650
4.1B Smoak 673pa, 119wrc+, 2.0war650
5.DH Pearce 327pa, 111wrc+, 0.8war650
6.CF Grichuk 388pa, 103wrc+, 2.9war650
7.2B Solarte 532pa, 103wrc+, 1.5war650
8.SS Tulowitzki 131pa, 94wrc+, 1.5war650
9.C Martin 393pa, 86wrc+, 1.7war650

B.UT Travis 131pa, 84wrc+, 1.0war650
B.OF Pillar 633pa, 84wrc+, 1.6war650
B.IF Diaz 212pa, 67wrc+, -0.3war650
B.C Maile 174pa, 77wrc+, 3.0war650

B.UT Morales 547pa, 84wrc+, -1.4war650
B.OF Smith 53pa, 124wrc+, 0.0war650
B.IF Urena 94pa, 62wrc+, -1.4war650
B.IF Gurriel 70pa, 42wrc+, -3.7war650



SP Happ 33gs, 78era-, 4.3war32
SP Stroman 27gs, 97era-, 2.1war32
SP Estrada 33gs, 117era-, 1.5war32
SP Sanchez 17gs, 109era-, 0.5war32
SP Garcia 27gs, 132era-, 0.3war32
SP Gaviglio 13gs, 110era-, 1.1war32
SP Biagini 14gs, 158era-, -1.0war32


RP Osuna 53.1ip, 81era-, 1.9war65
RP Tepera 78.0ip, 83era-, 0.6war65
RP Loup 58.2ip, 99era-, 0.4war65
RP Oh 60.2ip, 95era-, 0.3war65
RP Barnes 64.1ip, 94era-, 0.0war65
RP Axford 42.2ip, 105era-, -0.1war65
RP Clippard 67.0ip, 119era-, -0.1war65
RP Gaviglio 6.1ip, 66era-, 2.1war65
RP Mayza 27.0ip, 122era-, 0.0war65
RP Petricka 28.0ip, 150era-, -1.2war65
RP Biagini 22.2ip, 167era-, -1.9war65
 
manny said:
I'd prefer they aim higher. Teoscar looks good at times, but he is very limited defensively and doesn't get on base. Realistically, his ceiling is probably a 2-win player. Decent complimentary piece,but not going to win you anything.

I'd rather they trade for higher risk prospects with more upside.
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Yeah, Sure. Just saying that if you can get a guy who's league average overall with some potential for more (if he can fix his OF D a little), I'll take that any day for a FA pitcher.
 
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