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Leafs' Prospect/Marlies Discussion Thread!

Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!

Gauthier has zero puck skills or hockey sense. No good scout could have looked at that guy at 17 and saw legit top 6 upside. He handles the puck like a grenade. They saw him as a checking center. Those are the players that regime looked for. Grit before skill. Kenny Ryan, Tyler Biggs, Freddy Gauthier. All the same shit.

In his draft year Hanzal put up Krejci/Erat numbers in the Czech U20 league and was a ppg at the U18 tournament and was named to the all star team. There was never any comparison.
 
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Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!

Only over 40 points 2x in his career.... (though to be fair his PPG is better than i thought, it just seems he's always injured).

Ok, maybe i was wrong and he's a second liner, just can't stay healthy.
 
Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!

leafman101 said:
Gauthier has zero puck skills or hockey sense. No good scout could have looked at that guy at 17 and saw legit top 6 upside. He handles the puck like a grenade. They saw him as a checking center. Those are the players that regime looked for. Grit before skill. Kenny Ryan, Tyler Biggs, Freddy Gauthier. All the same shit.

In his draft year Hanzal put up Krejci/Erat numbers in the Czech U20 league and was a ppg at the U18 tournament and was named to the all star team. There was never any comparison.
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Yeah, this. This "upside" stuff is revisionist nonsense. Gauthier was like a lot of their picks; they liked him because he was "safe", and if he didn't pan out offensively, "at least he'll be a solid 3rd or 4th liner". With the irony being that I don't think a single one of their "safe" picks ended up becoming an NHLer.

If you're just going off pure numbers, I can understand how someone could have looked at 17 year-old Gauthier's almost PPG season and figure there might be some offensive upside there. But with the luxury of actually watching him play a lot in person, which you'd expect them to do with a guy they're picking in the first round, the only way you're drafting him based on his skill and upside was if you're blind.

Except for, thankfully, the two top-10 selections they actually kept (Kadri & Rielly), Burke & Nonis's draft priority went something like this:

1) Size
2) Pugnacity
3) Belligerence
4) Heart
5) Character
6) Leadership
7) Truculence
8) Intangibles
9) Skill
10) Offensive Upside
 
Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!

I hope this year's draft is a lot more like our 2015 and less like our 2016 draft.
 
Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!

PPG in your draft year is quite good production for a late first round pick, especially given he was a latr starting rookie that season. It was better production than guys considerdd to have top 6 upside picked ahead of him like horvat and lazar.

He was a raw late starting late developing 6'5" rookie who could skate and put up a ppg in his draft year. That is good for a late first round pick.

It's actually a surprise he didn't improve the next year and make it to the magic 1.2ppg level.
 
Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!

BKerr said:
Hanzal isn't really a second liner either though....
Click to expand...

injuries have skewed his topline numbers - but Hanzal has been a 50pt pace guy through his prime years - that's good 2nd line production.
 
Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!

Thinking ppg CHL production is a good sign from a 17 year old is a mistake teams always make. Gauthier, Virtanen, Faksa, Laughton, Jensen, Burmistrov, McNeill, Watson, Howden etc. Lots of kids do it simply because they get the opportunity because they are big. Its not surprising at all that Gauthier didn't make the jump to top 6 NHL level production. Way more guys don't than do.

All they had to do was watch him play once to see it wasn't happening.
 
Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!

Hey, you're the one that said it was surprising he didn't make the jump to 1.2 ppg. Thats was not a surpise. Like you said, most don't. The ones that do have legit NHL skill, which Gauthier clearly doesn't, and never did.

If he makes it it'll be solely because of hard work like a Martin or Hyman.
 
Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!

there are prospects of all skilltypes who don't improve from their draft year.
 
Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!

I'm not sure I understand your point. The fact that most players don't improve no matter the skillset doesn't make it surprising that a guy with no skills also didn't. It makes it way less surprising. More like expected.
 
Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!

HL: Biggs sucks.
FI: No way!
*Biggs actually sucks*
FI: But who coulda seen that coming?

And again with Gauthier.
 
Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!

I get the wishful thinking of wanting him to be a Hanzal. But he never was and never was going to be. Never came close. If thats what they thought he was, its just bad scouting, not a defense of the pick.

The fact that Burke thought Biggs was the next Lucic, doesn't mean it was a good pick. It makes it bad scouting.
 
Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!

well, i value production over the average scouting assessment. maybe you have a better scouting eye than me but i saw enough flashes from him to dream of potential offensive upside from a raw kid with a late start and growth spurt. definitely enough to gamble on given what else was available at that pick.

heck i still see glimmers of it on some shifts in the ahl.
 
Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!

BKerr said:
Only over 40 points 2x in his career.... (though to be fair his PPG is better than i thought, it just seems he's always injured).

Ok, maybe i was wrong and he's a second liner, just can't stay healthy.
Click to expand...

never admit you are wrong

just change the argument until you are right
 
Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!

Yeah but the whole point is that there was nothing notable about his production. That was back when we didn't really understand that ~ppg production from a 17 year old isn't impressive or indicative of anything. At the time we thought it was. But it never was.

Based on production we would have picked Petan, Shinkaruk, Burkaovsky or Theodore. All of whom look like NHLers of varying degrees. It wasn't a production based pick.
 
Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!

I disagree - ppg still is solid production, just not for a top pick. ppg in your draft year does indicate some nhl scoring upside.

but 21st in that draft was far from a top pick.
 
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