hockeylover
Well-known member
This is dumb.
Burke had certain old school philosophies which he made very clear to everyone who would listen. This has nothing to do with ownership.
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This is dumb.
Burke had certain old school philosophies which he made very clear to everyone who would listen. This has nothing to do with ownership.
Pronger84
Active member
I agree he did have principals he stood by (right or wrong) and he did blab on and on about them but it doesn't negate the fact ownership has the final say. Burke's problem was for all his bark he wasn't able to sell MLSE to do a full on rebuild.
leafman101
Well-known member
What? Burke said on day one he was hired that he didn't want some long term rebuild. His plan was never to rebuild the team. That was on him, no one else. In fact he sped up the rebuild with the Kessel deal.
That is not the point though. The point is Burke is a dinosaur, stuck in his old ways. Burke surrounded himself will all his buddies. Shanny has looked everywhere, grabing 20 year olds from the OHL, assistant coaches from Russia, the guy who drafted the CBA from the NHL etc. Burke didn't spend any of his analytics budget, Shanny has spent all of it and created a whole analytics department. This is just another example of Shanny thinking outside the box, which is something Burke never did.
That is not the point though. The point is Burke is a dinosaur, stuck in his old ways. Burke surrounded himself will all his buddies. Shanny has looked everywhere, grabing 20 year olds from the OHL, assistant coaches from Russia, the guy who drafted the CBA from the NHL etc. Burke didn't spend any of his analytics budget, Shanny has spent all of it and created a whole analytics department. This is just another example of Shanny thinking outside the box, which is something Burke never did.
LeafGm
Well-known member
I get the argument that it's a conflict of interest for him to be working as an assistant coach for a KHL team, and simultaneously work as a scout for an NHL team that just poached a top player from his KHL team. Though if the KHL team in question is really about to fold, then that's not really even an issue, and that would explain why the KHL team in question didn't care about Namestikov taking the job, or about Soshnikov bolting to the Leafs. But yeah, trying to argue that it gave them an unfair advantage over other NHL teams is nonsense. Like you said, any NHL team could have hired him---boo hoo for them that they didn't think of it first.
Anyways, nice hire by the Leafs. Russia's definitely a market we should be looking to exploit. With the ruble having fallen to "toilet paper" levels of value, and with so many KHL teams on the verge of collapse, we're probably about to see an influx of Russians into the NHL that we haven't seen the likes of since the early 1990's.
SundinsTooth
Leafs Moderator
This Burke didn't sell a full rebuild argument is ridiculous. He didn't sell something he himself didn't believe in.
Leafin'
Well-known member
Prove it.
Burke had his idea of what it would take to be a successful club. It didn't work out. Shanahan is taking an "i will take everyones opinion into consideration" approach to building this hockey team. We have no idea how this will turn out as he has been here for less than a full year. I like the concept of having everyone contributing and being able to bring ideas to the table. It may work, it may not.
Burke was an excellent spokesman for the team. Anytime the media would be digging into the team he would take it upon himself and shoulder enough blame to deflect it off the team. He was an ass about it to the media and i loved it. Shanahan seems to be more politically correct in the way he deals with the media but he himself hasn't been under much of the microscope yet. The Carlyle resigning bought him this season to be void of criticism.
Pronger84
Active member
Burke said he personally didn't believe in a "5 year rebuild", that's what his stance was on it when it came to his views on it. Your right, he did over estimate the roster he was given and rushed things by trading for Kessel, to this day I still feel that was a bad management move on his end, of course a lot of people would disagree with me on that.
At the time Burke took over analytics/corsi wasn't a huge thing like it is today, of course at the time he wouldn't invest money into building a wing or doing research on it, I highly doubt many (if any) GM's at that time did much research into it to be honest. The one thing I will say in Burke's defense is that he never gave out absurd long term teams on his contracts, he thought 5 was the celing and he stuck by that, I have to commend the guy for that much.
I agree with you on Shanhan he's much more patient then Burke is, he thinks before he reacts which is also an admirable trait. Another thing (like u said) he gets credit for is exploring various avenues when it comes to building the front office, evaluating his team etc... he defienlty has a new wave approach to the NHL and isn't stuck in his ways, commendable again.
Leafin'
Well-known member
So we should get Kovalchuk if he becomes available? Just kidding.
We should be in on any talent available regardless of age in my opinion. Leave no stone unturned. Some of these guys were headcases as 20 something year olds because they were spoiled throughout their development. Maybe some of these "malcontents" have matured into men. Say for instance Alexander Radulov. He is quite possibly the best player in the KHL. He was known as a "headcase" in his early days. Maybe he's matured. 28 years old.
Someone familiar with the talent over in Russia can probably provide a better argument here but my point is that we should look at all avenues. If these guys are available for just cash than i don't see the trouble in bringing some of them over.
LeafGm
Well-known member
Well, with Radulov, we at least wouldn't have to trade any assets to get him, like we'd likely have to do with Kovalchuk.
Still, I wouldn't be interested. If Radulov comes back to the NHL, he'll want to get PAID, and I don't want us gambling a good deal of money and term on a guy who's bolted from the NHL twice, and decided to go out for some late night drinking and partying the night before a playoff game in his last go-round. It's not like he was a teenager at the time either---this was just three years ago, and the dude was a 25 year-old with six seasons of professional hockey under his belt.
worm
Well-known member
blacksheep
New member
Agreed. I just don't think he finished the rebuild. He got part way in, and then the new owners took over, and out he was tossed on his ear.
It'd be interesting to see what Burke would have done had the Bell / Rogers owners kept him. At this point, it doesn't matter anymore, but I'm curious.
KingTucker
New member
Burke does not, to this day, believe in Analytics. He was at a big analytics conference and said: "EYE TEST BLAH BLAH I HAVE EYES DO YOU HEAR ME??" like so many old school hockey and media guys that are being left behind. MLSE has never stood in the way of spending money or whatever. Sure there are layers of interference sometimes but that's as far as it goes. Burke gave us good players (Rielly, Kessel, JVR) and his love of facepunchers and grit gave us horrid D like Komisarek.
Pronger84
Active member
Burke being anti-analytics has zilp to do with anything, my point was at the time he was the GM here analytics wasn't this big thing that it is currently in the NHL. Left behind? The guy has a cushy job as President of Hockey Operations in Calgary, and was even their GM for a brief time... hardly a guy who is "being left behind".
I disagree that Burke's ideas are "old school", actually I think he's an incredibly intelligent hockey mind, even to this day. The problem I find with Burke is he gets too fired up/passionate in his beliefs that he fails to see others prespectives and he can be incredibly narrow minded when he gets into his zone, his approach at times is all kinds of wrong.
As for MLSE allowing him to spend to the cap? Of course they wouldn't get in the way of Burke splurging on the cap money.! When a team is in "win now" mode they are encouraged to get close to the cap or go right to the limit, which is what Burke did under his regime.
MyNameIsJonas
Well-known member
Don Cherry would go insane if they did that. :explode
(good idea though)
(good idea though)
LeafGm
Well-known member
That'd be a good idea, except...Russia.
I wish I could find a link to the article, but I remember reading a great story about a couple of North American executives who went over to Russia to run a struggling KHL franchise. They came in, and over the course of a few months, they completely revamped the team's business model, ran a whole bunch of successful marketing promotions, lined up a bunch of sponsors and had the team headed towards running in the black.
But as soon as the team was starting to look like it could be successful, the shadowy figures started showing up. They started demanding large amounts of money for "security", kicked the sponsors out of their private boxes and took them over themselves (while paying nothing), while all the way, the local Russian partners shrugged their shoulders and told them in hushed tones that there was nothing they could do. Eventually, the team fell back into the same condition it'd been in before they got there, and that was the end of their jobs.
As long as that league (and the country) are run by Russia's mobster-in-chief, I'd say MLSE would be better off just investing their money in scouting.