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OT: The News Thread

zeke said:
what exactly do you think the EU is? why would the EU grant the benefits of the partnership with a nation which has just refused to share the responsibilities of it? why would free trade with UK be more important than free trade with any other nation?
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Ask Switzerland.
 
CH1 said:
Just like their American counterparts in the South, the low information voters in Britain decided to vote against their economic interests.

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Why is the economy everything to people? Guess what? Canada would probably be better off economicly as the 51st state but you don't see Canadians clamoring to join the usa. Because being Canadian has some value that one cannot put a price on.

Low information voters. Could you be more condescending...

MapleLeafBlueJayBoy said:
Britains credit was downgraded yesterday.
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Seriously, where did we go so wrong as a society that economics is the only thing that matters?
 
Habitants87 said:
Why is the economy everything to people.
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Because in most functioning economies, economic growth = jobs. Jobs = personal financial prosperity = higher quality of life.

Guess what. Canada would probably be better off economicly as the 51st state but you don't see Canadians clamoring to join the usa.
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No we wouldn't. We pay similar taxes, but get significantly higher level of services from our governments. Our PPP would be near identical, but quality of life would go down.



Low information voters. Could you be more condescending...
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Condescension doesn't necessarily equal inaccuracy. In this particular vote 70%+ of university graduates voted to stay and a huge percentage of people who voted to go were uneducated. Those numbers suggest a certain varying level of sophistication between the voting groups, no?
 
MindzEye said:
Because in most functioning economies, economic growth = jobs. Jobs = personal financial prosperity = higher quality of life.



No we wouldn't. We pay similar taxes, but get significantly higher level of services from our governments. Our PPP would be near identical, but quality of life would go down.





Condescension doesn't necessarily equal inaccuracy. In this particular vote 70%+ of university graduates voted to stay and a huge percentage of people who voted to go were uneducated. Those numbers suggest a certain varying level of sophistication between the voting groups, no?
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And their issues clearly are not the same issues facing university grads.

Their issues of having a goverment that cannot control the amount of people coming in, flooding the market with low wage earners clearly effects them more than university graduates. Does that mean they are low information voters? Or does that mean that the information they have, have witnessed, have lived through is telling them they are being screwed by the unelected bureaucrats in Brussels who tell them to go shove it when they try to bring up their concerns?

Again, at the end of the day, the EU lurches from one crisis to the next, has unelected bureaucrats usurping power from national legislators and making working class people all over Europe, not just the UK, wanting out of this failed experiment. Some things matter more than the economy.
 
You DO NOT want to be the 51st state for any reason whatsoever. This country is ****ed beyond belief.
 
Habsy said:
You DO NOT want to be the 51st state for any reason whatsoever. This country is ****ed beyond belief.
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Obviously. Yet when the UK votes to remove itself from its ****ed up neibours everyone has a hernia.

And again, I have not seen anyone say anything good about the EU.

Oh sure, there are the economic benifits from being attached to that monstrosity, but nothing good is said about the organization beyond that. Damned by faint praise, yet everyone jumps on the UK for voting to leave.
 
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/opin...vote-to-leave/article30632832/?service=mobile

there’s plenty of blame to go around. David Cameron was reckless for calling a referendum solely to appease the disaffected wing of his own party. Barack Obama was feckless in his disregard for Europe’s growing troubles and the worsening relationship between two crucial allies, Britain and the EU. Even the usually prudent Ms. Merkel made a stupendous blunder when she provoked the migration crisis by inviting the world to come to Europe. Britons looked at the massive human tide washing over Europe and were appalled.

Maybe the elites should stop moralizing about the vote and try to understand it.

At its core, this was a referendum about nationhood and national identity. It was highly class-based and crossed all party lines. If there was a whiff of Trumpism in the outcome, there was also more than a whiff of Bernie Sanders. The vote was really about English people’s desire to remain English – and it was an overwhelming rebuke to liberal internationalists who say that desire is illegitimate, atavistic and xenophobic.

Yes, there really is an English national character, and most of us have some idea what it is. Keep Calm and Carry On, as my coffee mug says. Stand in line and don’t jump the queue. No reverence for the toffs. When all hell is breaking loose, how about a nice cup of tea?

These aren’t just clichés, or nostalgia for a mythical England that never was. They express values that were real, and to a meaningful extent still are. “Yes, there is something distinctive and recognizable in English civilization,” George Orwell wrote in 1941. (Today, he’d be ridiculed as a classic Little Englander.) “It has a flavour of its own. Moreover it is continuous, it stretches into the future and the past, there is something in it that persists, as in a living creature.”

Unlike Canada, Britain has never been an immigration country. The English gene pool is essentially the same as it was in 1066. That began to change after the Second World War when Commonwealth citizens were invited in. But it wasn’t until 1997, when Tony Blair, a committed internationalist,*opened the doors*to immigration on a massive scale. Britain (or really England, where 90 per cent of newcomers settle) now has the fifth-largest population of foreign-born residents in the world. Visible minorities are about 14 per cent of the population. Many immigrants have integrated brilliantly. Others have not, especially Pakistanis and Bengalis from rural, intensely clannish cultures. As many people have observed, they didn’t come to England to be transformed culturally.

Brexit was not about non-EU migration. But it was a chance for people to express their views about nationhood. Immigration can be hugely beneficial. Yet too much immigration, as sociologists have admitted, can erode social trust and social solidarity. The people who bear the brunt of this dislocation are not the globally-minded class of professionals, business people, technocrats and media. They’re the people who have to wait in line for social housing.
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The people waiting in line for social housing most affected. The working class, the poor, the third estate types. And they vote massively to leave. Looks like they had all the information they needed.
 
Habitants87 said:
Obviously. Yet when the UK votes to remove itself from its ****ed up neibours everyone has a hernia.

And again, I have not seen anyone say anything good about the EU.

Oh sure, there are the economic benifits from being attached to that monstrosity, but nothing good is said about the organization beyond that. Damned by faint praise, yet everyone jumps on the UK for voting to leave.
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Do you even know why the EU was formed? To help prevent wars between neighbouring countries.

Brexit is some sort of call back to the good old days (that never really existed because of the routine war thingy). Rule, Britannia.
 
CH1 said:
Do you even know why the EU was formed? To help prevent wars between neighbouring countries.

Brexit is some sort of call back to the good old days (that never really existed because of the routine war thingy). Rule, Britannia.
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That's cool. We have NATO for that. Most of Europe is in it. Try again? Any other good points to the EU?
 
Habitants87 said:
That's cool. We have NATO for that. Most of Europe is in it. Try again? Any other good points to the EU?
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Not going to waste time arguing with someone who thinks economic benefits are more irrelevant than +/- stats.
 
CH1 said:
Not going to waste time arguing with someone who thinks economic benefits are more irrelevant than +/- stats.
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A good idea. Because national sovereignty matters far more than economic perks and if you fail to see that then I'm sorry for you.
 
CH1 said:
Do you even know why the EU was formed? To help prevent wars between neighbouring countries.

Brexit is some sort of call back to the good old days (that never really existed because of the routine war thingy). Rule, Britannia.
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While I get your point I think you're being a tad hyperbolic.
 
Habitants87 said:
A good idea. Because national sovereignty matters far more than economic perks and if you fail to see that then I'm sorry for you.
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What national sovereignty do the Brits gain by brexiting that they won't have to give away in free trade agreements anyway?
 
TimHorton said:
Eh, what?
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OK, here's a simple question. Would you submit canada to the same bullshit that Brussels puts out in order to be a part of that bloc?

In North America, would you have a unelected group of Mexicans Americans, Jamaicans, Guatemalan and hatians dictate what canada can and cannot do, allow people from these countries to settle at will throughout the country, based in the Cayman islands, who's sole job seems to be to drag north America from one crisis to another?

Probably not, we Canadians are already wary of American overreach into our country, but for some reason when the brits decide the same thing about Europe they are looked down on.

All the things they have put up with, ya, it wasn't worth it.
 
MindzEye said:
What national sovereignty do the Brits gain by brexiting that they won't have to give away in free trade agreements anyway?
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What's to stop them from signing a CETA type deal? Canada didn't need to pay into the EU in order to get that deal done, we don't have to allow European migration. Sure, it's not as good as the common market deal they had while in the EU but if that's the price to pay to actually be a independent* country so be it.

*definition of independent: free from outside control; not depending on another's authority.
 
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Sad, sad story.

Karen moved to Britain from Germany in the 1970s but since Thursday's vote, she's become terrified as she faced a series of xenophobic attacks. From having dog excrement thrown at her door to friends telling her they don't want to see her again, Karen gave a harrowing account of how she now feels unwelcome in the country where she made her home.

"I haven't been out of the house for three days," she sobbed. "My neighbours told me they don't want me living in this road.

"My friend's grandson got beaten up because he had a foreign grandmother."I'm so scared, I don't know what's going to happen next."
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video here, radio host handled it very well

http://www.lbc.co.uk/im-so-scared-now-german-woman-hit-by-xenophobia-calls-james-in-tears-132971
 
Habitants87 said:
OK, here's a simple question. Would you submit canada to the same bullshit that Brussels puts out in order to be a part of that bloc?

In North America, would you have a unelected group of Mexicans Americans, Jamaicans, Guatemalan and hatians dictate what canada can and cannot do, allow people from these countries to settle at will throughout the country, based in the Cayman islands, who's sole job seems to be to drag north America from one crisis to another?

Probably not, we Canadians are already wary of American overreach into our country, but for some reason when the brits decide the same thing about Europe they are looked down on.

All the things they have put up with, ya, it wasn't worth it.
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Well, the Caymans would be the NA equivalent to Switzerland, so they wouldn't be the ones making the decision. And the EU parliament is elected.

But otherwise, if it meant that we would actually have a full free trade with the US, free mobility within all of North America with no border control issues, and overall we derive some sort of economic benefit from it all? Yeah, I don't know really know if I'd be opposing that too much.
 
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