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OT: American Politics

BKerr said:
Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha... so stupid.
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One of the biggest tells for a nutter, is that when contrary evidence makes itself available that should cause most people to rethink their world view, it just becomes part of the conspiracy. No evidence is ever good enough, the conspiracy trumps all.

I don't doubt for a moment that the FBI is tracking to alt right movement and likely has people placed within it. That is largely what they do (especially considering the prevalence of white nationalist terrorism over the last decade), but Duke and Spencer being agents? C'mon.
 
MindzEye said:
I'm interested in examples of this occurring to someone who wasn't already a white supremacist/nationalist.
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There were groups protesting the native protesters in the days following the proud boys, the media framed them in the exact same way. For all intents and purposes, not white supremacists, but nobody cares to point that out.
If you belong to a racist organization, you're going to get outed as a racist when you publicly show up somewhere under that banner? Weird.
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I think 2 of the 5 proud boys were natives themselves. Does that matter? No. They are native white supremacists. And their careers are equally ruined.
Perhaps if legitimately racist organizations hadn't poisoned the well by being first in the pool, a rational dialogue (or at the least, an opportunity for a reasonable group to push back against the identity politics nonsense) had a better chance. When the first in the pool are the white nationalists and the proud boys, then yeah, it's going to make more reasonable people think twice.
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We are letting white supremacists frame our collective history. We are tearing down historical figures because white supremacists are claiming historical figures.

By tearing down these figures, not just lee, but all the others as well, we are letting white supremacists rewrite our history.

Disgusting. I really hate people.

I want to see white supremacists claim Washington next. Gather and spout their nonsense at every statue of slave owning Washington. Then, I hope people can find their voices and say enough is enough, Washington isn't coming down.

But after looking at recent trends, I bet Washington goes down in a fit of political correctness.
 
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MindzEye said:
One of the biggest tells for a nutter, is that when contrary evidence makes itself available that should cause most people to rethink their world view, it just becomes part of the conspiracy. No evidence is ever good enough, the conspiracy trumps all.

I don't doubt for a moment that the FBI is tracking to alt right movement and likely has people placed within it. That is largely what they do (especially considering the prevalence of white nationalist terrorism over the last decade), but Duke and Spencer being agents? C'mon.
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Yeah, which is more likely:
-Government agencies have infiltrated the alt-right to such a degree that their largest and most prominent figures are plants, and they're out there with the sole purpose of, I'm not even sure what. Just there to discredit the movement? Or I guess it's all part of the conspiracy since it's the Hillary supporters who are behind this all.
or...
-The biggest white nationalists are just idiots who like to spew their mouths to anyone who will give them a platform.

Tough call as to which is the more likely scenario...
 
MindzEye said:
One of the biggest tells for a nutter, is that when contrary evidence makes itself available that should cause most people to rethink their world view, it just becomes part of the conspiracy. No evidence is ever good enough, the conspiracy trumps all.

I don't doubt for a moment that the FBI is tracking to alt right movement and likely has people placed within it. That is largely what they do (especially considering the prevalence of white nationalist terrorism over the last decade), but Duke and Spencer being agents? C'mon.
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Like I said before, if Richard Spencer is not a government agent / informant, then he is the stupidest mother****er on the planet.

How about we roll back the clock and instead of names like David Duke and Richard Spencer, the names were Al Sharpton and Gloria Steinem.

Your response would likely be identical, and my take would be ultimately proven right.
 
UWHabs said:
Yeah, which is more likely:
-Government agencies have infiltrated the alt-right to such a degree that their largest and most prominent figures are plants, and they're out there with the sole purpose of, I'm not even sure what. Just there to discredit the movement? Or I guess it's all part of the conspiracy since it's the Hillary supporters who are behind this all.
or...
-The biggest white nationalists are just idiots who like to spew their mouths to anyone who will give them a platform.

Tough call as to which is the more likely scenario...
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Their job is to discredit Trump.

You make it sound like leading a bunch of neckbeard loners that can't get laid into a movement that they feel accepted / belonging in is a difficult thing to do for people that are trained to mind**** other people.
 
Altair said:
There were groups protesting the native protesters in the days following the proud boys, the media framed them in the exact same way. For all intents and purposes, not white supremacists, but nobody cares to point that out.
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Yeah, in days following the Proud Boys. They set the narrative (and yes, I have no doubt that the media was more than willing to trumpet that narrative). This is the problem when the fringe is the first in the pool.

I think 2 of the 5 proud boys were natives themselves. Does that matter? No.
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You're right, it doesn't. Be careful who you align yourself with. If you joined the Klan, nobody would give a **** that you were black when race relations was being discussed.

They are native white supremacists. And their careers are equally ruined.
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Not that I'm a fan of doxxing by any means, but this isn't new. Be careful who you align yourself with.

We are letting white supremacists frame our collective history. We are tearing down historical figures because white supremacists are claiming historical figures.

By tearing down these figures, not just lee, but all the others as well, we are letting white supremacists rewrite our history.

Disgusting. I really hate people.
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We really do need a new centrism, where rational people shout down both groups of idiots on the fringes.

I want to see white supremacists claim Washington next. Gather and spout their nonsense at every statue of slave owning Washington. Then, I hope people can find their voices and say enough is enough, Washington isn't coming down.

But after looming at recent trends, I bet Washington goes down in a fit of political correctness.
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Like most things, I think there's a line that won't be crossed because by crossing it, you wake up the mushy middle of the debate. The idiot fringes can chip away at the edges but when they attack the core, it wakes up enough people to push back.
 
JohnnyHolmes said:
Like I said before, if Richard Spencer is not a government agent / informant, then he is the stupidest mother****er on the planet.
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I'll vote for the latter

How about we roll back the clock and instead of names like David Duke and Richard Spencer, the names were Al Sharpton and Gloria Steinem.

Your response would likely be identical, and my take would be ultimately proven right.
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How does Sharpton's involvement as an informant on an investigation entirely unrelated to his work as an activist for black rights causes ultimately prove you right? As for Steinem, there's video of her discussing her involvement with the CIA that was made in the early 60's...she wasn't exactly hiding it.
 
MindzEye said:
Like most things, I think there's a line that won't be crossed because by crossing it, you wake up the mushy middle of the debate. The idiot fringes can chip away at the edges but when they attack the core, it wakes up enough people to push back.
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nope.

The core, in Canada is already under assault. Anyone who did anything that native Americans don't like are being removed or are under threat of being removed.

You said that Lee was only known for taking a big L in a shitty cause, sure, I'll buy that, but accomplishes people who have accomplishments in things other than their failings are coming down as well.

No one is saying anything. Nobody is pushing back. I have no doubt this is the route that the states is going to go as well.
 
Altair said:
nope.

The core, in Canada is already under assault. Anyone who did anything that native Americans don't like are being removed or are under threat of being removed.

No one is saying anything. Nobody is pushing back. I have no doubt this is the route that the states is going to go as well.
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Most Canadians don't know shit about Canadian history. The US holds their history a lot closer to the heart than Canadians do with theirs. To expect Canadians to push back on the removal of statues for historical figures like Cornwallis and Begbie is silly...ask 100 Canadians who they are and you'd be lucky if you got 5 right answers. I personally didn't know who Begbie was until I read an article about his statue being removed.

That's not "the core" of the Canadian identity.
 
the funny thing in all this is that the nazi/kkk shit is just part and parcel with traditional gop power and politics, while the virulently anti-globalist antifa hew much closer to johnny's purported worldview.

but yet he sides with the racists anyways.
 
MindzEye said:
Most Canadians don't know shit about Canadian history. The US holds their history a lot closer to the heart than Canadians do with theirs. To expect Canadians to push back on the removal of statues for historical figures like Cornwallis and Begbie is silly...ask 100 Canadians who they are and you'd be lucky if you got 5 right answers. I personally didn't know who Begbie was until I read an article about his statue being removed.

That's not "the core" of the Canadian identity.
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It's part of the core of Canadian historical figures.

But I guess you're right, nobody gives a shit about Canadian history.

And when these testiments to the past are gone, and there is even less to remind us of our past, we will all be poor for it.

You don't see this shit in Europe because those are mature, secure societies who can look at their past and take the good with the bad with no need to apologize for it( Germany being the only exception) where as in Canada and the states there seems to be a effort to apologize away our past.

I may just be expecting too much of North American society.
 
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