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Thread: OT: American Politics

  1. #71841
    Hall of Famer Wayward DP's Avatar
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    Default Re: OT: American Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Altair View Post
    The threat of protest and bloodshed shouldn't be a reason to not do the right thing.

    If Truman had listened to the CIA when they said that there would a be conflict between jews and arabs if they created Israel there wouldn't be a Israel today.

    Back to your point of relative blameworthiness, you're right. Neither side has helped trying to find a peaceful resolution. But one side has all the power and the other side has none, and less with each passing day. Israel can afford to go along business as usual, the Palestinians cannot, but they are no closer to making a serious effort to resolve the situation. That's on them. If their collective situation continues to worsen that's what they get for inept leadership.
    I would argue that, at this time, the internal divisions within both Israel and among the Palestinians are such that neither side is actually in a position to pursue meaningful peace.

    Just a bloody cluster-**** of a situation that Trump just turned the temperature up on. Not to mention, setting up a US embassy in Jerusalem is a large obstacle to any potential peace process.

  2. #71842
    Legend Altair's Avatar
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    Default Re: OT: American Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayward DP View Post
    there was also that whole Holocaust thing too. may have influenced what happened.
    Also completely ignoring that it was world war 1 and the Ottomans siding with the central powers that lead to France and Britain controlling most of the middle east in the first place.

    Fact of the matter was that Britain and the US didn't carve out israel from muslim lands, the land was technically British at the time.

    Ironically, had the Arab world just accepted Israel instead of repeatedly waging war against it, Israel today would be smaller, and there would be a Palestinian state today, and it would have been founded alongside Israel in 1948. If the arab world, and Palestine in particular, want to continue with their inept leadership making stupid decisions for the rest of time, so be it. Their situation will only worsen and they have nobody to blame for it but themselves.
    No one loves the warrior until the enemy is at the gate.

    Quote Originally Posted by zeke View Post
    An idiot grunt like habitants should be enraged.

  3. #71843
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    Default Re: OT: American Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayward DP View Post
    I would argue that, at this time, the internal divisions within both Israel and among the Palestinians are such that neither side is actually in a position to pursue meaningful peace.

    Just a bloody cluster-**** of a situation that Trump just turned the temperature up on. Not to mention, setting up a US embassy in Jerusalem is a large obstacle to any potential peace process.
    What peace process?
    No one loves the warrior until the enemy is at the gate.

    Quote Originally Posted by zeke View Post
    An idiot grunt like habitants should be enraged.

  4. #71844
    Hall of Famer Wayward DP's Avatar
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    Default Re: OT: American Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Altair View Post
    What peace process?
    did you miss the word "potential"?

    or is this just for effect?

  5. #71845
    Legend zeke's Avatar
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    Default Re: OT: American Politics

    Ayman Mohyeldin @AymanM
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    Once again the British PM has publicly rebuked Pres Trump. “We disagree with the US decision to move its embassy to Jerusalem...The UK Embassy to Israel is based in Tel Aviv and we have no plans to move it... we regard E. Jerusalem as part of the Occupied Palestinian Territories”
    #FreeTimmy

  6. #71846
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    Default Re: OT: American Politics

    Turkey right now:

    #FreeTimmy

  7. #71847
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    Default Re: OT: American Politics

    Jordan:

    #FreeTimmy

  8. #71848
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    Default Re: OT: American Politics

    west bank:

    #FreeTimmy

  9. #71849
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    Default Re: OT: American Politics

    #FreeTimmy

  10. #71850
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    Default Re: OT: American Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayward DP View Post
    did you miss the word "potential"?

    or is this just for effect?
    Effect.

    Seriously though, every day, every settlement, every rocket, every knife attack, every security operation, just brings the two sides further apart, and no leader is willing (neither population is willing) to concede anything anymore.

    It's time to stop doing things with a potential peace process in mind, it's not going to happen anytime soon and life goes on in the meantime.
    No one loves the warrior until the enemy is at the gate.

    Quote Originally Posted by zeke View Post
    An idiot grunt like habitants should be enraged.

  11. #71851
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    Default Re: OT: American Politics

    The amount of energy necessary to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude larger than is required to produce it.

  12. #71852
    Wrong Thinker Extraordinaire Habsy's Avatar
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    Default Re: OT: American Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by zeke View Post
    the US / britain went and carved out a chunk of the middle east for itself, including the arab world's holiest city, because some people had lived there a thousand years earlier. all while robbing the region of its oil and fomenting permanent war in the region.

    no matter what the US says or does, the arab world is never going to just sit there and take it.
    Mecca
    Medina
    Jerusalem

    In that order. Jerusalem is third holiest to the Arab world.
    #FireJulien#FireMarcBergevin Burn Geoff Molson in effigy! #worstmanagementstaffever

  13. #71853
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    Default Re: OT: American Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by MindzEye View Post
    Seems like his opponent is pro choice.

    If he wasnt I think it would be a landslide against moore.

    Anti Abortion> Pedophile in terms of hatred. Alabama for you.
    No one loves the warrior until the enemy is at the gate.

    Quote Originally Posted by zeke View Post
    An idiot grunt like habitants should be enraged.

  14. #71854
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    Default Re: OT: American Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Altair View Post
    Effect.

    Seriously though, every day, every settlement, every rocket, every knife attack, every security operation, just brings the two sides further apart, and no leader is willing (neither population is willing) to concede anything anymore.

    It's time to stop doing things with a potential peace process in mind, it's not going to happen anytime soon and life goes on in the meantime.
    But how can you do anything in a region if you don't think there's going to be peace eventually? I understand being pessimistic about when it may occur, but is the goal now to force an all-out conflict? That's about all that this move does.

  15. #71855
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    Default Re: OT: American Politics

    Ayman Mohyeldin @AymanM
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    More fallout from European allies: German Chancellor Angela Merkel says via government spokesman Steffen Seibert that Germany 'does not support' position of the Trump administration on Jerusalem, whose 'status is to be settled as part of negotiations on a 2-state solution.'
    #FreeTimmy

  16. #71856
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    Default Re: OT: American Politics

    https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20...nst-isps.shtml

    When FCC boss Ajit Pai first proposed killing popular net neutrality protections (pdf), he insisted he would proceed "in a far more transparent way than the FCC did" when it first crafted the rules in 2015. That promise has proven to be a historically-hollow one.

    Pai's agency is already facing numerous lawsuits for refusing to disclose conversations with ISP lobbyists about the plan to kill net neutrality, refusing to disclose net neutrality complaints filed with the agency, refusing to be transparent about a DDoS attack the FCC apparently concocted to downplay the "John Oliver effect," and for ignoring FOIA requests related to its failure to police website comment fraud during the public comment period.

    You'll recall that time and time again, Pai and friends have tried to claim that net neutrality isn't a real problem, and that the harms created by letting giants like AT&T and Comcast run roughshod over an uncompetitive broadband sector are largely hallucinated. As such, the National Hispanic Media Coalition (NHMC) filed a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request back in May to obtain the 45,000 consumer net neutrality complaints filed since the rules took effect in 2015, arguing that they might just prove useful to the conversation given the FCC's claim that net neutrality isn't a real problem.

    Initially the FCC spent much of this year stalling in the release of the complaints, insisting that making them public would be too "burdensome" for agency staff. After growing legal and public pressure, the FCC finally released upwards of 60,000 pages-worth of complaints by consumers who say their ISP behaved anti-competitively in violation net neutrality. But the agency is still refusing to include these complaints in the net neutrality proceeding docket, and refuses to include details on how ISPs responded to these complaints in the docket either:

    "The FCC has not produced any additional documents since we filed an Application for Review [on November 14]," NHMC Special Policy Advisor Gloria Tristani told Ars today. Besides carrier responses, "we are missing other documents as well, such as attachments to consumer complaints, consumer rebuttals, etc." The FCC has not explained why it didn't provide those documents, according to the NHMC."

    Again, this appears to be par for the course for this FCC. It's fairly clear by now the FCC refused to do anything about the fraud during the comment period because it believed that raising questions about the validity of the comment process would help downplay the massive public opposition to its plan. Similarly, refusing to include real consumer net neutrality complaints in the docket helps prop up Ajit Pai's patently-false claim that net neutrality (which again, is just a symptom of a lack of competition in broadband) isn't a real problem. It's the same MO, repeated over and over and over again.

    Needless to say, this entire process has been raising the hackles of fellow agency Commissioners that actually believe that the lack of competition in the broadband mark
    The amount of energy necessary to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude larger than is required to produce it.

  17. #71857
    Legend Altair's Avatar
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    Default Re: OT: American Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by UWHabs View Post
    But how can you do anything in a region if you don't think there's going to be peace eventually? I understand being pessimistic about when it may occur, but is the goal now to force an all-out conflict? That's about all that this move does.
    Force all out conflict between who? Nation states? Not going to happen with the Iran Saudi conflict heating up , Israel is a sideshow compared to that brewing conflict.

    Israel and Palestine? What else is new?
    No one loves the warrior until the enemy is at the gate.

    Quote Originally Posted by zeke View Post
    An idiot grunt like habitants should be enraged.

  18. #71858
    Wrong Thinker Extraordinaire Habsy's Avatar
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    Default Re: OT: American Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by zeke View Post
    Ayman Mohyeldin @AymanM
    42s
    More fallout from European allies: German Chancellor Angela Merkel says via government spokesman Steffen Seibert that Germany 'does not support' position of the Trump administration on Jerusalem, whose 'status is to be settled as part of negotiations on a 2-state solution.'
    Foreign countries have no say in where the US puts it's embassies.
    #FireJulien#FireMarcBergevin Burn Geoff Molson in effigy! #worstmanagementstaffever

  19. #71859
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    Default Re: OT: American Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Habsy View Post
    Foreign countries have no say in where the US puts it's embassies.
    That statement isn't about the USA's embassy, it's about their declaration that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel.
    Ill trade five ordinary players for one great player any day. You can always find ordinary players. - Conn Smythe

  20. #71860
    Wrong Thinker Extraordinaire Habsy's Avatar
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    Default Re: OT: American Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by LeafGm View Post
    That statement isn't about the USA's embassy, it's about their declaration that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel.
    If Israel uses it as their capital, which they do, it's not wrong to respect that.
    #FireJulien#FireMarcBergevin Burn Geoff Molson in effigy! #worstmanagementstaffever

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