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OT: American Politics

Altair said:
I support not tearing down the statue of general lee.

Anything to say to that?
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I'm fine with not commemorating the confederacy and what it stood for, ie Slavery. I'm fine with taking down monuments to confederate leaders who were willing to lead an army into battle to protect their rights to keep black people as slaves.

I say tear it down.
 
MindzEye said:
Actually, it really does. The rights to free speech in the US are not absolute. I've tried to explain to you a few times that you have a poor grasp of the concept in actual practice and you continue to not listen.

Incitement, Libel/Slander, Obscenity, "Fighting Words"...all categories of speech of that are not protected. Running around shouting racial epithets is not protected speech.
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So you're saying that the Antifa "protesters" violated the 1st amendment?

zeke said:
it's funny that they want everyone to think the civil war was just a normal territorial battle qith heroes on both sides, instead of a war to stop slavery.

but this is what we get for giving the losers participation trophies, I guess.
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The only hardware on your shelf, I'd wager.

BKerr said:
https://twitter.com/TheFalconer/status/896477067000270848

Don Falconer‏ @TheFalconer
If one person shows up at your protest with a swastika flag, and the rest of the group lets him stay, you're all now carrying that flag.
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If one Muslim shows up on your plane with a bomb, are all Muslims now carrying that bomb?
 
CH1 said:
I think it goes beyond electoral strategy-- members of the GOP are genuinely appalled by these Neo Nazis.
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It's time they banned any white supremacists from running as a Pub or even affiliating with the GOP. The RNC has to come out and say no, you don't represent what we stand for and you won't be allowed to run as GOP. Peoples fathers, grandfathers and relatives didn't die ridding the world of the Nazis only to have them sprout up in the US. **** that.
 
Trump's statement yesterday was just unbelievable. What a coward. He doesn't want to offend his base of white supremacists. Also, while I'm speaking about the tragedy, let me list my great accomplishments! Oh and let's mention Obama again and blame him for the 1000th time!
CNN criticizes him, let's call them out! White Supremacists! Let's not offend. They voted for me!
They've got to get a way to get him out before it's too late.
 
zeke said:
if this doesn't show you what those confederate memorials actually stand for, nothing will.
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The only argument I have about that is that history can't be erased, put in the closet or tucked away in any form. There are people that look at the memorials and realize that it can never happen again.
 
white house official are doubling down this morning on NOT singling out white supremacists for blame here.
 
Habsy said:
The only argument I have about that is that history can't be erased, put in the closet or tucked away in any form. There are people that look at the memorials and realize that it can never happen again.
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so put it in a museum. not a public honorific.
 
JackBurton said:
Trump's statement yesterday was just unbelievable. What a coward. He doesn't want to offend his base of white supremacists. Also, while I'm speaking about the tragedy, let me list my great accomplishments! Oh and let's mention Obama again and blame him for the 1000th time!
CNN criticizes him, let's call them out! White Supremacists! Let's not offend. They voted for me!
They've got to get a way to get him out before it's too late.
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Let's be honest here, the white supremacists aren't Trump's base. I know plenty of people that voted for Trump that don't align with that radical and disgusting ideology. In my mind however that makes his chickenshit "all sides" statement worse. You're actually pandering to a fringe element to retain their vote? Seriously? It's disgusting.

When he said he denounced the actions in the strongest possible terms I thought good, it's about time. The problem was that should have been a full stop. Should he have expressly called out the POS Neo Nazis? Absolutely. At bare minimum though he shouldn't have all-sided the statement. I think conflating different incidents is a cop out. Does Antifa pull some bullshit? Sure. There are fringe groups everywhere with radical ideologies. That in no means even comes close to justifying what happened yesterday or in many other incidents.

I am a strong believer in constitutional rights. I believe Trump has the right to do many stupid things as President. Not because he's Trump, but because he's President. People have the right to express their opinions, no matter how disgusting and vile. What they don't have the right to do is incite violence and riot. The cops should have shut that crap down quickly yesterday, people that don't like it could take it to court. Sure the line is a fine one but unlike many countries, there are legal recourse for your grievances.
 
Habsy said:
The only argument I have about that is that history can't be erased, put in the closet or tucked away in any form. There are people that look at the memorials and realize that it can never happen again.
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There are different types of memorials. Some look back at history critically, and some celebrate it. We don't need statues celebrating the history of slavery.
 
JohnnyHolmes said:
If one Muslim shows up on your plane with a bomb, are all Muslims now carrying that bomb?
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When you stand beside that person and associate yourself with them... sure.

I don't think a muslim sitting on his couch is associating with the guy on the plane.
I don't think a white dude sitting at home on his couch is associating with the guy with the nazi flag.

The guy marching beside the guy holding the nazi flag? He's condoning the behavior and stands with him.
 
zeke said:
so put it in a museum. not a public honorific.
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You think the people that need to understand where the country came from and how far it's come go to museums?

It's taken 150 years to get to the point where the country is ready to stop placating the south. These memorials were allowed to go up to quell the radical fervor of the south's loss to the north. Is it time to rethink the memorials? Sure I think so but I also realize it's a delicate situation. You won't change hearts and minds with a stick. People worry so much about offending other people until they are the ones doing the offending.
 
BKerr said:
There are different types of memorials. Some look back at history critically, and some celebrate it. We don't need statues celebrating the history of slavery.
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The argument here is the conflation of celebrating pride with slavery.
 
Jefferson and Washington were both slave owners. It was a fabric of society back then. They were also integral in the formation and the succession of the United States from Great Britain. Should all their memorials be removed as well?
 
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