Altair
Well-known member
Must be something else.
OT: American Politics
- Thread starter MindzEye
- Start date
Must be something else.
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
Probably identity politics or % of Clintons.
Bleedsblue&white
Well-known member
Habsy, my guess is there is some tie-ins between the American Mentality towards guns and the actual gun violence in your Country.
You have often said we just don't understand...well, maybe our lack of understanding is less about us, more about a country that almost idolizes what is basically an instrument of death.
Whatever drives so many Americans towards Believing in Gun might be attached to the deaths at the end of said God.
You have often said we just don't understand...well, maybe our lack of understanding is less about us, more about a country that almost idolizes what is basically an instrument of death.
Whatever drives so many Americans towards Believing in Gun might be attached to the deaths at the end of said God.
Habsy
Yes, I'm kidding people.
I’m not reaching, I’m asking a different question. It’s obvious less access to guns would reduce gun violence. It’s you guys that seem to think there are no other underlying issues.
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
Because there are no other issues that exist in the US that don't exist in other countries. I'm not surprised though, it's the American ethos to believe that America and Americans are special and can't be compared to other countries.
You've mentioned a few possibilities in the last page or two, and I've shown you how the US is in line with the rest of us. Like I said, pick your variable. There's only one where the US is an outlier.
uncus
Well-known member
Guns a part of the problem automatic assault rifles and hand guns.
We had guns in the house growing up, and we all hunted and went out back to shoot or practice our archery. We didnt have these problems.
But what we didnt have were video games killing hookers or killing cops or killing anything that moved.
As much as the generation after me wants to deflect any and all blame from this technology, i think that is a big part of the problem.
I once shot a bird to see if i could hit it ... i did, afterwards my dad asked me why.... i said i wanted to see if i could hit it. He walked over to the bird and stuffed it in my pocket and said there is your dinner tonight. Never shot another thing to see if i could hit it or not.
Jmho
We had guns in the house growing up, and we all hunted and went out back to shoot or practice our archery. We didnt have these problems.
But what we didnt have were video games killing hookers or killing cops or killing anything that moved.
As much as the generation after me wants to deflect any and all blame from this technology, i think that is a big part of the problem.
I once shot a bird to see if i could hit it ... i did, afterwards my dad asked me why.... i said i wanted to see if i could hit it. He walked over to the bird and stuffed it in my pocket and said there is your dinner tonight. Never shot another thing to see if i could hit it or not.
Jmho
uncus
Well-known member
First school shooting i can remember wasnt in the U.S. it was in brampton ontario.
I think the kids name was zabolta or so.ething like that.
Next was the boomtown rats girl ...... i don't like Mondays
But it really isnt anyrhing new, it has been happening since the 1850s.
Just there are more news mediums to make it front page news
I think the kids name was zabolta or so.ething like that.
Next was the boomtown rats girl ...... i don't like Mondays
But it really isnt anyrhing new, it has been happening since the 1850s.
Just there are more news mediums to make it front page news
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Altair
Well-known member
Care to explain how Europe and canada have the same access to violent video games yet there hasn't been a spike in gun related violence in those countries?
Hoss
Well-known member
Okay...as an educator for 20 years who has worked in various different school communities and in a high school that had one of the highest suicide rate in Toronto, my opinion is that highschool in Toronto with the highest rate was because it most resembled the American mentality of the good looking jocks and the girls all had to have a certain look.
The area had money as well, so kids were not only pressured to be good looking, they had to literally "keep up with the kardashians".
This creates a tremendous amount of pressure on the gay teens, the insecure teens (which are all of them), and the socially awkward.
Girls on a weekly basis were groped and worse in the stairways and basement parties. And those that weren't invited to anything were completely ostracized.
This resulted in an extremely high suicide and attempted suicide rate in the area schools.
The one way this school wasn't very "American"? These kids didn't have easy access to guns.
They liked going into the seedier neighbourhoods for drugs, but they didn't want to buy guns.
Sorry if this isn't as coherent...I'm texting it.
But the gist is....American values of beauty and money and fame puts a lot of extra pressure on teens. They just can't keep up. And so suicide is a way out...but if you have a gun.....now you can at least get the fame you desire
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The area had money as well, so kids were not only pressured to be good looking, they had to literally "keep up with the kardashians".
This creates a tremendous amount of pressure on the gay teens, the insecure teens (which are all of them), and the socially awkward.
Girls on a weekly basis were groped and worse in the stairways and basement parties. And those that weren't invited to anything were completely ostracized.
This resulted in an extremely high suicide and attempted suicide rate in the area schools.
The one way this school wasn't very "American"? These kids didn't have easy access to guns.
They liked going into the seedier neighbourhoods for drugs, but they didn't want to buy guns.
Sorry if this isn't as coherent...I'm texting it.
But the gist is....American values of beauty and money and fame puts a lot of extra pressure on teens. They just can't keep up. And so suicide is a way out...but if you have a gun.....now you can at least get the fame you desire
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
You didn't, but society did. The gun homicide rate was higher in 1980 (significantly) than it is today in the US.
Society was actually more violent prior to their introduction and the issue has been studied to death (pun not intended) with no link found between violent video games and even increased thoughts of violence in children, nevermind increased violent behaviours.
http://theconversation.com/its-time-to-end-the-debate-about-video-games-and-violence-91607
Altair
Well-known member
How this myth still has legs is beyond me
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
Horace: 20 BC
Thomas Barnes: 1624
Enos Hitchcock: 1790
Granville Stanley Hall: 1904
My point? If there is a common social thread connecting all of human civilization, it's that the generations that come after yours are shit, that their influences are shit and we're on the bring of the collapse of society because of these new things we don't understand, and these damn kids who just don't understand how the world works.
Yet here we are in 2018 with no polio, a monstrously superior level of human well being in comparison to any other age, and video games.
Weird.
lecoqsportif
Well-known member
Hoss, is that really an “American” mentality?
Vacuous, superficial bullshit is ubiquitous and timeless. Has it become more central in our lives due to digital communication and relentless marketing? Maybe. I don’t follow it or care, because it counts for shit the minute junior needs to put a roof over his head and feed himself.
Vacuous, superficial bullshit is ubiquitous and timeless. Has it become more central in our lives due to digital communication and relentless marketing? Maybe. I don’t follow it or care, because it counts for shit the minute junior needs to put a roof over his head and feed himself.
lecoqsportif
Well-known member
Apart from the guns, one major difference between the US and other high income nations is the absence of a comprehensive social safety net. The other would be the relatively high degree of religious fundamentalism.
Iknowenuff
Banned
Uhhh, Hoss, that was intense. LCSP well, you went sorta Ayn Raynd there.
Yeah, everyone thinks the next generation is worse, meanwhile they are actually better.
Hoss
Well-known member
At my keyboard now so can type a little clearer.
This highschool in Toronto was the closest thing I felt to an American highschool. What I mean is, the area was predominantly white, with a decent amount of money in the area. The girls from elementary school age were taught early to have that "look". and that the cool boys were the jocks, or the kids with money that also had that look. All of the neighbouring schools also went to a junior high before attending the highschool. Here, the cliquey nature and emphasis on being "cool" and popular took hold a lot earlier than in other schools I have taught in. Kids in grade 7 were already being forced into sexual acts, nude pics were common occurrence, and alcohol and drugs stolen from parents was common.
Every school has it's jocks, cheerleaders, nerds, goth etc... but in my time in other schools, it wasn't as vacuous. This school was literally "the breakfast club" in terms of the American version of a highschool.
The difference was that there was such a hard separation between the haves and the havenots, and such a strong rejection of the kids without, that it put A LOT of pressure on the students to keep up. Again, I know this happens in every highschool, but when the surrounding community doesn't have those same values, and when the divide between groups isn't as negative I haven't seen the same thing.
Pretty girls in this highschool either fell in line, or they were threatened, slut shamed, "bullied" mercilessly until they left the school. The rejects tried desperately to be accepted and could never do it. As a result, the area had one of the highest suicide rates in the city, and it was a constant mix of the types of kids.
The area as well, always tried to keep it quiet. Because many of the parents were former graduates of the school and would never leave that area. Kids who were children of Police sargeants were parts of major ecstasy dealers and were caught with garbage bags full of pills never saw any charges laid against.
What I meant as well about the american attitude maybe should have been clarified as the "white all-american" attitude as I felt this school where I was at could have been plucked out of our city and thrown into West Virginia or something and wouldn't stand out of place.
Sorry for the long post. But I know Habsy was looking for "what else could it be" and I just wanted to add that the American ideals of success, beauty, and fame are also here and they do result in teens succumbing to pressure. The difference is Canadian teens crash through abuse of themselves and suicide. The access to guns in the states just allows kids to go out a lot differently and to finally feel like they are being "heard". It's gross but, that is what some kids just want. And doing a school shooting gives them a voice and the power that they can't get any other way.
Bleedsblue&white
Well-known member
We have Lemming-like qualities as well...just watch a riot start...so, while we may not understand how it started, once it started, people will copy...good or bad, people will copy.
I think kids that are bullied, can't get laid and are mentally unstable would do these things at greater rates in other countries if they had more access to firearms. I mean, it does still happen sometimes in other countries, just not as often as in the US.
I bet the ratio of incidents would somewhat align with the ratio of guns in the US compared to other countries.
I bet the ratio of incidents would somewhat align with the ratio of guns in the US compared to other countries.