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2013-2014 Miscellaneous League News and Discussions

jeffbear said:
- The other markets floated all have issues ... getting territorial rights sorted for a second Toronto team, Seattle's lack of pedigree as a hockey market and the seeming lack of any kind of local interest, the fact that Quebec City is roughly the size of Mayberry ... I exaggerate to make the point, but you get it.
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The Leafs and the NHL really need to sort out the territorial rights once and for all in the GTA. If you can have Rangers-Islanders all these years, you most certainly can have two Toronto teams in that hockey mad market and it will do nothing but boost the rivalry and the product for both teams. The Leaf ticket has been out of reach for so many hockey fans for years in Ontario, a second team somewhere in the Toronto area will easily support itself. If there is one no-brainer market in terms of expansion or relocation, it has to be Toronto or somewhere in that Southwestern Ontario corridor.
 
CarolinaRedEyes said:
what makes you say that? It's not like Raleigh NC was a hockey loving spot 12 years ago.
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We had the IceCaps. Seattle has the Winter Hawks. But Seattle really didn't enter the NHL conversation until the ill fated bid to buy the Sacramento Kings and move them to Seattle. That was the impetus to get a new arena in Seattle. Key Arena isn't really suitable for hockey, the modifications made for the Supersonics years ago eliminated endzone seating, just like TWC in Charlotte and Barclay's Center in Brooklyn. They're still going ahead with the new Seattle arena but the primary tenant would be an NHL team.
 
CanadaCanes said:
The Leafs and the NHL really need to sort out the territorial rights once and for all in the GTA. If you can have Rangers-Islanders all these years, you most certainly can have two Toronto teams in that hockey mad market and it will do nothing but boost the rivalry and the product for both teams. The Leaf ticket has been out of reach for so many hockey fans for years in Ontario, a second team somewhere in the Toronto area will easily support itself. If there is one no-brainer market in terms of expansion or relocation, it has to be Toronto or somewhere in that Southwestern Ontario corridor.
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I think you can even make the case that the NY to Philly corridor is about the same size the GTA. And for sure now that the Devils are in Newark that's 3 teams in the Tri-State area which is NYC.

Quebec Panthers
Hamilton Lightning
 
andyt said:
We had the IceCaps. Seattle has the Winter Hawks. But Seattle really didn't enter the NHL conversation until the ill fated bid to buy the Sacramento Kings and move them to Seattle. That was the impetus to get a new arena in Seattle. Key Arena isn't really suitable for hockey, the modifications made for the Supersonics years ago eliminated endzone seating, just like TWC in Charlotte and Barclay's Center in Brooklyn. They're still going ahead with the new Seattle arena but the primary tenant would be an NHL team.
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So there is support for NHL hockey in Seattle.
 
Dan Patrick is apparently reporting that PK is in talks with a Vegas investor group to sell the Canes. More sour grapes over the ESPN/Hartford days? Doesn't seem real plausible with the local investor buy-in and planned RBC expansion, but it is PK and if the $$ is there.....
 
CarolinaRedEyes said:
what makes you say that? It's not like Raleigh NC was a hockey loving spot 12 years ago.
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It certainly wasn't and we suffered deeply for that lack of groundswell support. We got a team dropped in our laps without much of the organic buildup and it took the market about 3-4 years to respond. That's 3-4 years that the typical expansion market gets to build up grass roots local support. If the NHL is serious about fast-tracking this process they are going to DEEPLY screw up the local markets involved ... if they are virgin territory like Seattle. Ditto Vegas, but again ... it's Vegas and people would pay to see two elephants insulting each other in that weirdo market.
 
Montanacane said:
Dan Patrick is apparently reporting that PK is in talks with a Vegas investor group to sell the Canes. More sour grapes over the ESPN/Hartford days? Doesn't seem real plausible with the local investor buy-in and planned RBC expansion, but it is PK and if the $$ is there.....
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Runs completely counter to the expansion chatter. If the NHL is seriously going down the expansion track once again, that by it's nature pretty much locks the current franchises in place where they are for one VERY big reason. Relocation fees are peanuts compared to the fees the league gets for new franchises. Period.

Anybody who doesn't get that is failing to grasp professional sports economics at its very base line level ... aka, a typical sports "journalist"

Plus, people fail to completely grasp the concept that Karmanos himself is an out of town owner, so if he did sell his interest in the club to somebody else from out of town, that really doesn't mean the club is going anywhere. They could ... but then again, a LOT of things could happen. Doesn't mean they will. The spin here is that the money guys in Vegas are so desperate for a pro sports franchise that they'll over-pay somebody, anybody to get one ... and Karmanos is in the selling mood. I'm not sure either premise is even accurate, but whatever. Stuff happens.

As a supporter of both Wolfpack athletics and the Hurricanes I hope all this stuff is just chatter because I'd hate a move on more than one count. But Karmanos is the owner and it's his money that's been paying the light bill. If the league is stupid enough to go along with moving this franchise ... and they are that kind of stupid in general if not specifically ... then there ain't much I can do about it.
 
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jeffbear said:
It certainly wasn't and we suffered deeply for that lack of groundswell support. We got a team dropped in our laps without much of the organic buildup and it took the market about 3-4 years to respond. That's 3-4 years that the typical expansion market gets to build up grass roots local support. If the NHL is serious about fast-tracking this process they are going to DEEPLY screw up the local markets involved ... if they are virgin territory like Seattle. Ditto Vegas, but again ... it's Vegas and people would pay to see two elephants insulting each other in that weirdo market.
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But Seattle isn't virgin territory. They have that CHL team the Tbirds and a decent history of Jr hockey. They are just like Raleigh was but are probably more prepared than we were or even are today (lack of 5 star hotels ring any bells?). They have great public transport and a shat load more people to pull from. I would say the chances of success in Seattle are greater than they were here.
 
CarolinaRedEyes said:
But Seattle isn't virgin territory. They have that CHL team the Tbirds and a decent history of Jr hockey. They are just like Raleigh was but are probably more prepared than we were or even are today (lack of 5 star hotels ring any bells?). They have great public transport and a shat load more people to pull from. I would say the chances of success in Seattle are greater than they were here.
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Missing my point. And by virgin territory, I mean for top level professional hockey ... not juniors. My point is that fast tracking is bad, NOT that Seattle is bad. Heck, Seattle's one of the best sports towns in the country, if not the best. It's the idea that "this is going to happen quickly" that bothers me. No it's not. Not if it's a fresh market. Maybe so if you're talking about Quebec City (still tiny) that already had an NHL club, or Toronto that already has one. Other than that, you're going to have to do the legwork and history says that takes a good 3-4 years.
 
jeffbear said:
Missing my point. And by virgin territory, I mean for top level professional hockey ... not juniors. My point is that fast tracking is bad, NOT that Seattle is bad. Heck, Seattle's one of the best sports towns in the country, if not the best. It's the idea that "this is going to happen quickly" that bothers me. No it's not. Not if it's a fresh market. Maybe so if you're talking about Quebec City (still tiny) that already had an NHL club, or Toronto that already has one. Other than that, you're going to have to do the legwork and history says that takes a good 3-4 years.
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Actually what I originally quoted was your statement that Seattle has a lack of hockey pedigree or interest in the sport. So I did get your point, but maybe you didn't? ;)
 
Okay, the canes are moving to Las Vegas and will be renamed the Las Vegas slap sticks. They will give the comedians a run for the money.
 
I see Luke DeCock had comments today about Dan Patrick's claims the Canes could be moving to Vegas. Luke was right on in my opinion:

http://www.newsobserver.com/2014/08...canes-struggles-once.html?sp=/99/103/400/120/

The thing that worries me the most is that I think this year is going to be really really ugly attendance wise, especially early on. This team better have an on ice product that is compelling, exciting, and winning or these types of rumors and talk about this team being sold and potentially moved are just going to get worse and worse. I don't think the NHL really wants to move anyone at this point, but the Canes need to very quickly get themselves righted again and get ticket sales up to avoid being lumped in with other teams that are consistent money losers and candidates for relocation. Waddell has his hands full trying to sell this team again to potential ticket buyers who obviously have been turned off after so many years of suckage. Winning will help that a lot.
 
cmaleski2 said:
I see Luke DeCock had comments today about Dan Patrick's claims the Canes could be moving to Vegas. Luke was right on in my opinion:

http://www.newsobserver.com/2014/08...canes-struggles-once.html?sp=/99/103/400/120/

The thing that worries me the most is that I think this year is going to be really really ugly attendance wise, especially early on. This team better have an on ice product that is compelling, exciting, and winning or these types of rumors and talk about this team being sold and potentially moved are just going to get worse and worse. I don't think the NHL really wants to move anyone at this point, but the Canes need to very quickly get themselves righted again and get ticket sales up to avoid being lumped in with other teams that are consistent money losers and candidates for relocation. Waddell has his hands full trying to sell this team again to potential ticket buyers who obviously have been turned off after so many years of suckage. Winning will help that a lot.
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This area continues to grow by leaps and bounds and I'm willing to bet that with even the slightest turn around of the on-ice product that the attendance will be ok. The thing that amazes me the most about this market when it comes to the Canes, there seems to be alot of entertainment hockey fans more than die-hard hockey fans that seem to support this team many a nights. It's a bit of a strange dynamic and we have talked in here before about many Hurricane crowds that just seem to be looking for a night out more than passionatly following the Canes with every win on the ice. If they can find a way to keep at least half of the building affordable for tickets, the 15/16K or so attendance average a game is easily sustainable here.
 
CanadaCanes said:
This area continues to grow by leaps and bounds and I'm willing to bet that with even the slightest turn around of the on-ice product that the attendance will be ok. ...
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For myself, this is what I've been hoping year in year out, since our fall from grace the year after winning the cup.

Yeah this season is VERY important. Although I am not expecting a championship nor championship caliber on-ice product, it's time this team showed definite improvement after arguably not only stagnating but regressing in overall progress as a viable NHL organization (i.e. successful)
 
From spectors:
NBC SPORTS: Mike Halford lists Dustin Penner, Jamie McBain, Shane O’Brien, Ryan Malone and Andrei Loktionov as five potential training camp tryout candidates. O’Brien could be headed to the Florida Panthers for a tryout.
 
JamesNorthern said:
From spectors:
NBC SPORTS: Mike Halford lists Dustin Penner, Jamie McBain, Shane O’Brien, Ryan Malone and Andrei Loktionov as five potential training camp tryout candidates. O’Brien could be headed to the Florida Panthers for a tryout.
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I could handle Ryan Malone getting a look-see...big body with some jam up front. Has he cleaned up his bad habits off the ice?
 
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