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The Official Fire Randy Carlyle Thread

Pronger84 said:
Bernier going down was the perfect chance for him to solidify this team's playoff chances, and for him to get his #1 job back but instead he comes in and he gives up soft goals and doesn't make the saves needed to in order to help this team win, I'm not saying he had to come in and be lights out but man he could have done so much better then what he has been the past 5 games, Riemer blew it all on his own, the only thing Carlyle can be faulted for was putting him in against New Jersey but other then that Reimer has nobody to blame but himself here.
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Like I said, Reimer played himself out of a job here.
But I do fault Carlyle for not giving Reimer the same chance he gave Bernier. First couple bad goals, Reimer was out. That NEVER happened to Bernier all season long (and it's not because Bernier never let in softies). Reimer was pulled far too easily, and that's when his sulking began.
Regardless, to be a professional in this league, he shouldn't have let all that bother him, and he did. So he's done, here.
 
Doubt Carlyle survives should the Leafs miss the playoffs. They'll probably hire Laviolette.
 
I find it interesting that the same core of players that played with Wilson, are failing with Carlyle. I realize we have seen a major upgrade in goaltending since that time, but the result hasn't been much better.

Makes me start to question some of the players that we have. Is it possible that we have a couple of bad apples? A few guys that are lazy? Poor leadership in the lineup?

Coaching isn't a perfect science. You have to take gambles during games and make decisions by the second. These decisions may seem easy to criticize from the comfort of your home, but they're are split second decisions none the less. Is it not out of the realm of possibility that it is the players that are the problem and not the coaching staff?

Not saying one way or the other, just throwing that out for discussion. All i know is that this team has fallen off the deepend. If they do not make the playoffs, the offseason will be really interesting.
 
Yeah, if they do blow it again, which is still an if at this point, it will be the 3rd time in 3 years under two different coaches.

There probably is a leadership issue on the team. But I don't know how you fix it. It can't just be a simple as bringing in a good vet because they did that with Gleason and Bolland. Might be forced to make a more impactful change.
 
My issue with Randy last night was once again ice-time. Why is McSelke being shoved down our throats? Why dress Orr to have him sit on the bench? And then of course why did you let an injured Bernier take to the ice against LA, and last night yet again. To me, Bernier looked like he struggled to get into the butterfly which is an indication that he wasn't 100%
 
Leafin' said:
I find it interesting that the same core of players that played with Wilson, are failing with Carlyle. I realize we have seen a major upgrade in goaltending since that time, but the result hasn't been much better.
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wha? We made the playoffs last year and were on pace for 95 points for the majority of this year before this collapse, that don't fool yourself, is very goaltending dependent. Being beat by the best team in hockey pretty convincingly (aside from the scoreboard, which was flattering) doesn't change the facts on the ground about the previous 5 games. Out skated, out shot, out chanced our opposition.

Makes me start to question some of the players that we have. Is it possible that we have a couple of bad apples? A few guys that are lazy? Poor leadership in the lineup?
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Too many passengers that don't make tangible positive contributions. Just look at St Louis for example, they have a guy like Morrow, we have Clarkson filling a similar role.

Coaching isn't a perfect science. You have to take gambles during games and make decisions by the second. These decisions may seem easy to criticize from the comfort of your home, but they're are split second decisions none the less. Is it not out of the realm of possibility that it is the players that are the problem and not the coaching staff?
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When you look at the underlying numbers there are only 2 conclusions really. This team is either A) as bad as Buffalo or Edmonton B) they're a terribly coached group

When you look into the history of the group, even just comparing last year to this, which one of the two it is jumps out at you.

Not saying one way or the other
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I'm saying it. We've had, almost to a man, the individual Corsi% of the guys on our club fall from the 48-51% range under other coaches, to the 42% range under Carlyle. Either our entire team forgot how to manage the puck, or our system sucks.
 
Killer93 said:
My issue with Randy last night was once again ice-time. Why is McSelke being shoved down our throats? Why dress Orr to have him sit on the bench? And then of course why did you let an injured Bernier take to the ice against LA, and last night yet again. To me, Bernier looked like he struggled to get into the butterfly which is an indication that he wasn't 100%
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Zeke has touched on it before. A lot of coaches (and Randy is worse than most for this) return to their bad habits like a security blanket whenever shit isn't going right. Instead of injecting young legs into the equation, he returns to comfortable decisions, guys that he "trusts". It doesn't matter that McClement is a possession nightmare (even among a group of possession nightmares under Randy...though McClement wasn't good in Colorado either) who should be a 7 minutes a game 4th liner/PK speciality. What matters is that in Randy's eyes he's a "defensive specialist" and we're not good enough defensively for Randy. So ignore the fact that with McClement on the ice, historically the ice tilts towards his goalie....that's fine, because McClement looks a lot better than say Holland or Smith when he's stuck in his zone. It doesn't matter that the other 2 are stuck in the defensive zone less, what matters is how they look in comparison to McSelke when they're stuck in the zone.
 
MindzEye said:
wha? We made the playoffs last year and were on pace for 95 points for the majority of this year before this collapse, that don't fool yourself, is very goaltending dependent. Being beat by the best team in hockey pretty convincingly (aside from the scoreboard, which was flattering) doesn't change the facts on the ground about the previous 5 games. Out skated, out shot, out chanced our opposition.
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Yeah, Reimer's play was a big factor but they still had to get better results than they did. A 6 game pointless streak at this stage of the season is completely unacceptable.

And they made the playoffs last year but finished it off with an epic collapse. Epic collapses have become far too common ways to end the season here. If it happens again that might mean something.
 
Getting "better results" when your goalie puts up a .874 sv% over 8 starts, is damn near impossible regardless of who the coach is....
 
Not really. Even when we had Toskala playing that bad they didn't never get any points. His last year here he posted a .874 and the Leafs went 7-12-3.

Just needed more than zero points not set the world on fire.
 
SO people here think if we ive the exact same line up next year but change out the coach, we are a better team?

I've been the biggest backer of Phaneuf since he's been here, but boy oh boy did he make it tough last night. I wouldn't be getting rid of him or anything, but what we do need is another Dion Phaneuf. We need one more really good defender to play with Phaneuf. Im not sure who fits that bill and who will have chemistry with Dion, but we need a n upgrade on Gunnarson and Franson.

The recent love fest for Jake Gardiner in Leafland is funny and serious case of what have you done for me lately. Here was a guy that struggled the entire year and catches a hot streak, is all of a sudden an untouchable? I dont think so. If we are able to move him out for an upgrade to the team, i do it. Rielly gives you everything Gardiner does, while being 4 years younger. I like his skating ability, i like his puck skills, but he has the brain equivalent for hockey of Cody Franson.

Phaneuf - XXXX
Rielly - XXXX
Gleason - XXXX
 
Without question they need another top dman. It might even be worth moving our first rounder for.
 
Leafin' said:
SO people here think if we ive the exact same line up next year but change out the coach, we are a better team?

I've been the biggest backer of Phaneuf since he's been here, but boy oh boy did he make it tough last night. I wouldn't be getting rid of him or anything, but what we do need is another Dion Phaneuf. We need one more really good defender to play with Phaneuf. Im not sure who fits that bill and who will have chemistry with Dion, but we need a n upgrade on Gunnarson and Franson.

The recent love fest for Jake Gardiner in Leafland is funny and serious case of what have you done for me lately. Here was a guy that struggled the entire year and catches a hot streak, is all of a sudden an untouchable? I dont think so. If we are able to move him out for an upgrade to the team, i do it. Rielly gives you everything Gardiner does, while being 4 years younger. I like his skating ability, i like his puck skills, but he has the brain equivalent for hockey of Cody Franson.

Phaneuf - XXXX
Rielly - XXXX
Gleason - XXXX
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imo you keep Gardiner. He's young and has made stupid rookie mistakes, but I still think the potential is there. Building leafs D around Phaneuf/Rielly/Gardiner is pretty legit I think.
 
Ideally you are looking for a top pairing dman to play with Phaneuf and a 2nd pair anchor. In theory Rielly should be the former sooner or later.

in the long run it doens't look so bad.

Rielly-Phaneuf
Gardiner-XXXX
Gunnar-Percy/Finn/Brennan/Granberg/MacWilliams.


Of course at the current moment Rielly and Gardiner aren't there yet and Franson is XXX. They need some kind of stability in the top 4. Right now they only have one reliable pair.
 
leafman101 said:
Yeah, if they do blow it again, which is still an if at this point, it will be the 3rd time in 3 years under two different coaches.

There probably is a leadership issue on the team. But I don't know how you fix it. It can't just be a simple as bringing in a good vet because they did that with Gleason and Bolland. Might be forced to make a more impactful change.
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I think it's one of two things with Randy and the players a) Randy is struggling to get his message across to the players, and unable to get them motivated for the game b) the players have quit on Randy and are off doing their own thing in spite of him. Given how well they played in Anahiem in his first game back since being fired I'm leaning towards option a, if that's the case then Randy needs to go once the season is over, we need a coach that knows how to communicate with his players and how to get them to buy into whatever system is implemented.

Mindz made a good point about a Toronto/Edmonton comparision, IMO the two teams are mirror images of the other with the exception of Toronto having better goaltending this season.
 
If Reimer didn't tank our season, Carlyle would be 2-2 in getting his Leaf squads to the playoffs....after nearly a decade of futility....and already people want him gone.

Change for the sake of change, isn't something I'm all that interested in.....
 
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