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The ****ing Off Season thread

Darren Dreger ‏
UFA talking period has been good for D.Boyle. He will have a decision to make between bigger money vs a better chance of winning.
 
He won't be a Leaf unless Nonis overpays.

You would think at this point he would want to play for a contender
 
Apparently the Leafs were very close to a deal last night but it fell apart, it was to move up in the draft but it wasn't the first overall pick. Many in the media now expect the Leafs to stand pat unless something new arises today
 
Oh this is just great ... from various interviews over the past 2 days these are the sound-bits from Nonis.

"The price is too steep to get to 1st (overall pick) and I know Dave is serious about moving the pick, and he may get some offers but it is too steep for us. We're happy and we're ready to draft at 8th."

So that's ok, I mean if Tallon has priced himself out of the market we shouldn't be bidding for it and give up more than what Ekblad may be worth. The consensus is there isn't really an elite player here. Some good top line players, but no superstars so 8th or 3rd make little difference. I'm ok with that.

Asked about UFA or other centers in the trade market, Nonis said "I'm sure one or 2 of them will be moved, but i don't expect all (that are rumoured?) will be moved. We are not looking at those though. We made a few quick calls but we don't think there's a fit."

Translated, don't expect any of Richards, Lecavalier, Spezza, or ROR, Stastny etc to be in a Leaf jersey. I'm ok with that too, as I agree none of them is a great fit.

"And don't be surprised to see James Reimer at camp competing for the #1 job."

WHAT? I thought that that boat has sailed and James is all but a goner? it will be very awkward for Reimer to come back at camp again, especially under Carlyle again. Of course, he could be saying this simply to jack up Reimer's price in the trade market, and I sure hope that is the case. Bringing Reimer back under Carlyle does not help the team, does not help Reimer and does not help Bernier either.

Change is imminent but I think we're looking for a different kind of change. Instead of changing the personnel I think we're looking for a different kind of change - we're looking for the same personnel to play more committed, to play differently. We are looking forward to training camp with the same group of guys but a different commitment."

You gotta be freaking kidding me. This, however, is EXACTLY the same tone that Shanny's been singing - changes through status quo. Thus keep all the same guys, keep the C on Phaneuf, bring back Franson, bring back Bolland, in fact, even bring back Reimer, and all under the same coach too - just play differently and we'll win!!

He must be BLIND to the fact that this team is NOT WELL. The illusion we 'barely' missed the playoff last year is because of 2 extremely hot streaks by our 1st line, and elite play by our goalies pretty much all season long.

This team lacks offensive depth, lacks physicality on our top 6, lacks a NHL system, lacks work ethics - but we'll just tell the same coach to coach differently, tell the players to play differently, and we expect we will then start winning???

I'm SO ready to write off the season already if our roster is 90% same as last year on opening night.
 
The roster can't be 90% the same next year. It is unlikely that Raymond, Kuly, Ranger and McClement are back. Bolland is likely gone. Who knows where Franson stands. That alone is over 1/3 of the roster.

And that is only if they don't make any trades all offseason.

There will be moves. All Nonis was saying is that they aren't going to make moves for the sake of making moves. He said though that they are looking to make some, and will likely make a few.

Just wait to see what actually happens. Nonis doesn't say anything in these interviews.
 
And he believes all it takes to turn the team around is to coach differently, to play differently and to play more committed.

And Leafs fans are the ultimate optimist? Nonis himself gotta be the biggest Leaf fan.

This management group is looking very much like a stagnant group with no accountability whatsoever. Coaches have no accountability, execs have no accountability, no wonder players play with no accountability.
 
Yeah, I said it after the meltdown, and I'll say it again. The problem with this club wasn't the performance of the core, it was the performance of the depth/youth. Once you got past Raymond on the offensive depth chart it truly was a wasteland that did nothing offensively, and wasn't good defensively either. On the blueline we just had too many guys playing out of their depth. Too many hard 5 on 5 minutes for Franson & Gardiner. Too many minutes against top competition for Gunner. Too many minutes period from fumble****s like Fraser & Ranger.

If we added quality depth players who have high compete level, chip in some offence, can cycle a puck...and then just one defender like Oduya who can replace Phaneuf on a shutdown pair and free him up to be more aggressive, more creative, we can be much, much better without this slash and burn tactic that a lot of people are looking for.

With that said, we definitely should have fired Randy into the Sun as his system has proved to be a drag on the team, but the core personnel needs insulation, not annihilation.
 
I think hes talking about the core. Making big moves and changing the direction.

If we let Raymond, Kulemin, Bolland, Bodie, Mcclment, Ranger all walk, theres gonna be changes just from that alone.

I cant see Reimer being back either - and what is Nonis supposed to say, he doesnt fit and we want to get rid of him. Hes gotta say the generic.
 
He said both that they could make changes and they are trying to, or they could not make changes. You can't pick half of his quotes and come to a conclusion. He didn't say anything. Basically all he said was they are looking to make changes, but he can't make any promises. Typical lawyer answers.
 
Yeah, I said it after the meltdown, and I'll say it again. The problem with this club wasn't the performance of the core, it was the performance of the depth/youth. Once you got past Raymond on the offensive depth chart it truly was a wasteland that did nothing offensively, and wasn't good defensively either. On the blueline we just had too many guys playing out of their depth. Too many hard 5 on 5 minutes for Franson & Gardiner. Too many minutes against top competition for Gunner. Too many minutes period from fumble****s like Fraser & Ranger.

If we added quality depth players who have high compete level, chip in some offence, can cycle a puck...and then just one defender like Oduya who can replace Phaneuf on a shutdown pair and free him up to be more aggressive, more creative, we can be much, much better without this slash and burn tactic that a lot of people are looking for.

With that said, we definitely should have fired Randy into the Sun as his system has proved to be a drag on the team, but the core personnel needs insulation, not annihilation.
Yup that sums it up for me too.

You blame the players cause at the end of the day they play the game, not the coach. But Carlyle's system is either extremely flawed, or it does not work for this team. Either way, it's his fault and he should have been fired.

But beyond coach, the general problem with this team is lack of offensive depth especially with an off-season by Lupul. The Leafs really needed him to support 2ndary offense and he just wasn't there. Beyond JVR, Bozak, Kessel and Kadri, there was a surprising Raymond and nobody else. Lupul was bad, and Clarkson, Kulemin did not provide the offense you expect from 3rd liners, and McClement, meatheads, etc didn't stand a chance.

The other problem is overall weak defensive plays by the entire team, not just the dmen. Forwards played a very undisciplined defensive game all season long and were not held accountable for what they did. Forwards were often out of position, cheating, or uncommitted to 1-on-1 puck battles. Any casual hockey fans who watches over 2 Leafs games can easily point out to you the Leafs get hemmed in our own zone for WAY TOO LONG, and big part of that problem was due to our Forwards, not our D. Carlyle had 82 games to fix that and either he didn't have the players to do it, or he couldn't do it. In either case, bringing back most of the same players and the same coach is asking for disaster.

On top of that, like you said, except for Phaneuf the Leafs D were all playing above their limit. Gunnarson should have been a #4 and he was playing #2. Franson should have been a #5 and he was playing #3. Gardiner was playing on 2nd unit but he also needs to be sheltered. Gleason should have been #7 and he was playing #4 ... the list goes on and on and on. To fix this problem we need a strong #2 to play with Phaneuf, and in turn push everyone down a spot. Of course, finding a #2 is a very, very tough job. Nonis had the chance to sign J-Bo but he passed on that (didn't even kick the tires) and instead kept throwing guys like Holzer, Gunnarson, Kostka etc. to play with Phaneuf, no wonder Phaneuf looks so gased at the end of every game.


At the end of the day the team has many good pieces in the core but we also need some big changes to both the coaching system and the personnel to turn things around.
 
I don't think the Leafs are as flawed on paper as people are making it out to be. If it were just about "on paper", this roster would have made the playoffs IMO. The Eastern Conference finalists, the Habs and Rangers, aren't any better on paper.

It's the way the Leafs come together as a team on the ice. It falls far short of the talent of the roster. If they could get the parts of the team to coalesce into a stronger whole, one that can play some defense at least, that would be more powerful than 2nd and 3rd line / pairing roster changes.

I mean somehow, teams like the ancient and crippled Wings manage to scrap their way in. The Bruins can trade Kessel and Seguin, and yet still only get better. On the flip-side, the Penguins have a stacked roster and somehow can't make it past the 2nd round.

This is what Shanahan can bring to the Leafs, what he learned from the Wings. An emphasis on team.
 
Yeah ... too bad Shanny doesn't play anymore.

As an executive, I have yet to see how he can bring the team together.
 
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