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All things Staal

SlapShots

SlapShots

Well-known member
There's been multiple comments made about Eric Staal's captaincy, on ice demeaner and his leadership abilities, and whether or not he's earned his annual salary. He is an Olympic gold medalist, a gold medalist in in the Worlds and has a Stanley Cup ring. He's been an NHL All Star and even walked away with the MVP award at an All Star game. Overall, he's the face of this franchise and enters camp as this team's number one center. Additionally by all accounts, his younger brother Jordan is a solid second line center whose signing was to give the Canes a solid one-two punch. So, in reading the Sunday papers, came across this in Steve Simmons' column. It's a good question and are Eric Staal and by extension, Jordan Staal those guys? Big time centers who can bring this franchise to another Stanley Cup?

Can you win a Stanley Cup without a big-time centre?

The odds say it’s highly unlikely. Of the past 10 teams to win the Cup, nine had dominant play from their centremen, and in some cases, in championship years by Los Angeles, Boston and Pittsburgh, the teams had more than one all-star down the middle.
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Thus, as we enter the season, a second season where Staal had an off season injury to re-hab from, coming off his worst NHL year, I thought all Things Staal could go here. Ultimtely, it's time for the Staal brothers to dominate and demonstrate their big time prowess.
 
Well ... there's two of them so let's look at them separately.

1. Eric
No matter anyone's feelings about how things have gone for Eric Staal since 2006, the fact remains that he has already been a No 1 center on a Stanley Cup championship team so yeah ... he can do that. He's done it. And no, Rod Brind'Amour wasn't the No 1 center on that team. Staal was. Brindy was the heart and sould of the team but on the ice he was a primary defensive center and a secondary scoring center. Staal was the guy who lead the big line and got the big points.

So the big question is whether or not he can get back to that level. Physically there's nothing holding him back other than short term health issues. In terms of team makeup, he's got enough quality linemates available in Semin, Skinner, Tlusty, etc. So why hasn't it happened for him? I don't know that anybody's got the time to go through the details. Suffice to say that he probably hasn't committed himself to conditioning like he should and hasn't always had decent enough wingers. He also hasn't always responded to the burden of responsibility in ways that you'd like to see.

Bottom line ... Carolina has a proper first line center with all the skills and tools you'd want for that role. He just needs to get out of his own way and be that guy on a more regular basis.

2. Jordan
Again, results measure out to indicate that Jordan Staal is a championship caliber player ... because's he's got the ring. The question is whether or not he's a 2nd line center or more of a checking center who belongs in a 3rd line role. And for my money the jury is still out. In terms of the tools Jordan brings to the table, yeah ... he's got the goods. In terms of how the team is set up ... not so solid. But like his brother, it's all there on the table for this guy. He just needs to show up hungry and take advantage.
 
1. Eric has had some really solid years as a number one center here, but the expectations and pressure that come with being one of highest paid players in the NHL have been immense. It seems to me that Eric's best years came when he had more of a supporting cast of leaders and veteran players in the room, once he was the go to guy, the leader and captain, his game started to slide and the pressure began to mount.

2. JR missed the boat entirely on Jordan Staal and what he thought he could be when he was moved out from under Crosby and Malkin's shadows in Pittsburgh. He was supposed to be a 70 point player with all this offensive upside that was going to be the 1-2 punch down the middle for the Canes. This trade was an epic fail in my opinion, both the contract and assets traded away for what is essentially a great third line checking center in Jordan are terrible. Add to the fact that Carolina has no depth on the wings to even provide Jordan with quaility offensive players to play with, and the trade was really dumb all the way around. This trade was one of the reasons why the Canes lack quality prospects, Brandon Sutter essentially plays a great third line checking center role...the Canes traded away a first round draft pick, one of their best young defense prospects and a former number one draft pick in Sutter for Jordan, who many a nights brings the exact same game as Brandon but at two to three times the cost.
 
For what it's worth, Coach Peters' comments suggest that he believes the days of the checking line are dead. Most NHL teams are moving towards a configuration where three lines have scoring potential and can be defensively responsible (obviously as different levels of proficiency) and the fourth line is where your grinders, fighters and penalty killers reside. Under that scenario, Jordan has to put up some numbers to justify his salary and the assets given up to acquire him.
 
I think we've all discussed the pouty, lazy, dumb penalty, unproductive version of Eric that we've seen too many times over the past 5 years. That's on him to fix, and I'm hoping that Ronnie, Roddie, and Peters do everything they can to get his attention. The dropping production wouldn't bother me quite as much if Eric didn't exude a sense of failure while out there on the ice.

That said, Eric is making over $9 million a season, so yeah, there should be pressure there to produce. Produce for Eric Staal means points, and a lot of them. It means 30 goals. It mean more than 70 points. It means PP points. This organization cannot afford their highest paid players to not produce, its really that simple. Eric is our highest paid player. Simply leading this team in points is not enough, he needs to be a dominant force out there. I think that player is still there at some level, but he better show up this year or this team is doomed again this year because.....

.....Jordan Staal has given absolutely no indications that he is anything more than a good checking center. JR was quick to defend the lack of offensive production from Jordan, I think mostly because he realized how bad this trade has gone so far. I'm not buying the whole 'well, his primary responsibility is to shut down other team's top lines, and then chip in offensively here and there. So we won't worry about his point total'. That's a complete load of crap. We traded away a pretty consistant #3 center, one of our top defensive prospects, and a #8 overall pick for Jordan and handed him $60 million for 10 years. We are only 1 year into that 10 year commitment, and Jordan didn't look any better to me than your average 3rd line checking center. We did NOT trade for and pay this guy to simply be a checking center. This guy was acquired and paid to be a 60 point a year+ compliment to Eric's 1st line role.
In this regard, we need to put Jordan in better positions to be the scorer he is being paid to be AND expect that he is going to deliver (and then have him deliver).

I see this as one of Peters challenges. Enough with the nonsense of accepting Jordan's crappy point totals like he's your average run of the mill checking center. We have to get more out of this guy. Part of making this happen is getting him out there on the PP and getting the PP to be effective. Another part of it is finally once and for all removing the offensive anchor that is Pat Dwyer from Jordan's wing. Not to say we remove Pat Dwyer from the team, but for crying out loud get him off Jordan Staal's line and keep him off!!!!!!

The Staals need to man up this year and earn their salaries for the Canes to succeed. Eric? 30 goals, 50 assists, lots of PP points. Jordan? 25 goals, 35 assists, lots of PP points. I don't want to see 9 more seasons of last year's Jordan Staal, that is for sure. I want to see that guy who stepped up when Crosby and Malkin went down and looked like a capable #1 center. Where the heck did that guy go? And no more protecting the guy with the excuse that he is matching up against other team's top lines. Boo friggin hoo, get your ass in gear Jordan and deliver more offense like you are getting paid to do.
 
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CanadaCanes said:
2. JR missed the boat entirely on Jordan Staal and what he thought he could be when he was moved out from under Crosby and Malkin's shadows in Pittsburgh. He was supposed to be a 70 point player with all this offensive upside that was going to be the 1-2 punch down the middle for the Canes. This trade was an epic fail in my opinion, both the contract and assets traded away for what is essentially a great third line checking center in Jordan are terrible. Add to the fact that Carolina has no depth on the wings to even provide Jordan with quaility offensive players to play with, and the trade was really dumb all the way around. This trade was one of the reasons why the Canes lack quality prospects, Brandon Sutter essentially plays a great third line checking center role...the Canes traded away a first round draft pick, one of their best young defense prospects and a former number one draft pick in Sutter for Jordan, who many a nights brings the exact same game as Brandon but at two to three times the cost.
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Yeah ... thus far in Jordan's tenure as a Hurricane this trade looks pretty horrible. I do think that Jordan has one thing to add to the mix that both the Canes need and that Brando will never offer and that's physical presence. Jordan is a big, big boy and is capable of playing the kind of rough and tumble game that Sutter will just never manage with his stick figure frame. Thus far we just haven't seen that physical presence from Jordan NEARLY enough. If there's one thing I'd say he's simply got to do this season aside from produce more offense is to start banging bodies the way a 6'4" 220-something pound guy with his level of experience ought to be able to do. I'd say we've seen roughly 25% of what Jordan Staal ought to have on offer. Time to start earning that paycheck big fella.
 
I predict that both staals will have banner years and Gleason will be close to a Norris candidate.
 
I think it's almost a given that Eric will return to a 70+ point center this season, but it's the way he will make them that I most wish we could find a way to change.

Absent some combo of Peters-induced wizardry or a sudden attack of self-awareness on Eric's part that he could be like...you know, a dominant player or something, I'm pretty sure that some scheme will get him enough touches that his number of shots per game will increase that half-shot or so that he was missing and that his shooting percentage will settle back to his usual rock-steady 11% instead of last season's 9% and he'll be right back on pace.

But, heck, if I'm waving the magic wand from up on high, I'd have him go all Messier on this team and start looking like a $9M man instead of just being one. But I'm not holding my breath on that one. Been too many seasons waiting for that wake up call as it is.

Jordan, on the other hand, I believe has just been misused. As cmaleski noted above, you can't give a second-line center bottom-sixers for wings, saddle him with the toughest defensive assignment on the ice (especially with our over-slotted d-corp), and expect offensive production.

So, if Jordan's rolling with Gerbe and Dwyer on his wings, then...well, then we've just given up. But, on the other hand, his defensive acumen cannot be ignored, so his wingers have to also have strong two-way games. I'd personally like to see him given Tlusty and Semin to work with on a true two-way line. That's a line I do believe could both score and contain the opposition's best.

As for Eric, I don't think it matters just who you put him with, as long as they have talent...the more, the better. So, if you want to go heavy on offense with your top line, then load the other two top offensive guns we have on that first line with Eric. Give him the emerging buddy-movie pair of Skinner and Lindholm and turn 'em loose with Sekera and Faulk behind them. Points are soon to follow, and I like that as a first power play unit, as well.

That leaves a third line of Nash with Gerbe and presumably Boychuk for secondary scoring, but I'd rather see the all-in than another rehash of Skinner-Nash-Lindholm as our third line again. But...I digress.

Staal's...need 'em...so, feed 'em. Give 'em some talent on the wings and let those horses run.
 
I'm with you on linemates for the Staals Elsker. Really we have enough offensively capable forwards on our roster that there should be zero reason for Pat Dwyer to be anywhere near the top 2 lines. Ideally he is on line 4 where he can get 4-5 minutes of even strength time a game and contribute along with Jay McClement on the penalty kill.

Really any combination of the Staals, Semin, Skinner, Lindholm, Tlusty, Gerbe, Boychuk and/or Terry (if either make the NHL roster) should be the core of our top 3 lines. I think we have spent too much time trying to balance Jordan's line with the defensively responsible Dwyer at a huge expense to 5 on 5 offense. That needs to end this year. That's not to say there will never be a situation where Pat Dwyer won't skate with a top 3 line, but that should not be the first choice unless there is no better choice. Certainly there is no reason at all to have Dwyer on line #2 as even without Boychuk or Terry (or another kid who surprises in camp and works his way onto the roster) we already have 7 guys who are NHL capable scorers.

Peters clean slate is going to lead to an interesting camp for Boychuk, Terry and other kids. This team would be so much better with Boychuk stepping up and earning a primary scoring role as it would allow us to fill 3 lines with capable scorers, even if Nash is the center for line #3. Just one of our offensive minded prospects/AHLers making the team fills 8 spots with potential goal scorers. If you erased the bad memories of the last 5 years, its not hard to see why Ronnie and friends think this roster is capable, at least at the forward positions, of being a pretty decent goal scoring team. There is potential there for sure.

As for the Staals (tying back to this thread), the key to getting the most out of them OFFENSIVELY is to surround them with the best offensive talent we can. Situationally, its ok to have Pat Dwyer out with Jordan Staal late in a game to protect a lead. Game tied or behind? Dwyer should NEVER be out there with either Staal 5v5, EVER!!! (Unless injuries or penalties force Peters to have him there).
 
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Good comments all around. I remember 2 years ago storming out of the Canes draft day party, madder than hell about the Jordan Staal trade. I felt at the time that we gave up far too much to get him and I think that opinion has been validated (at least so far). I'm hoping that Bill Peters can truly turn things around, as there is a lot of talent on this team that has underperformed big time. Let's hope this season starts a lot better than the past.....well you know.
 
With Eric Staal I think the key word is leadership, or lack thereof, really. Even though he was the #1 center on a Stanley Cup winning team, I believe he was more of a passenger on a unit that played well together as a team and had others running the show. Once some veterans and free agents got seined off the top and Staal was installed in more of a leadership role, I don't feel he filled that position very well and contributed to the team's overall weak attitude. I still believe he is capable of playing as a suitable #1 center on almost any team, I just question his leadership ability, desire, and grit. To me, his leadership ability has improved from what it was a few years ago, but it is below what I expect out of the captain of an NHL team. Earning (I use that term loosely) almost $110K per game, dude is getting over big time.

Jordan Staal has shown some of his skills and toughness, though I believe he is overpaid for what he produces. ThinIce is right about seeing what kind of performance Bill Peters can get out of these guys and how well they buy into his system. I'm past ready to be pleasantly surprised.

Jim
 
Pucking Lamplighter said:
With Eric Staal I think the key word is leadership, or lack thereof, really. Even though he was the #1 center on a Stanley Cup winning team, I believe he was more of a passenger on a unit that played well together as a team and had others running the show. Once some veterans and free agents got seined off the top and Staal was installed in more of a leadership role, I don't feel he filled that position very well and contributed to the team's overall weak attitude. I still believe he is capable of playing as a suitable #1 center on almost any team, I just question his leadership ability, desire, and grit. To me, his leadership ability has improved from what it was a few years ago, but it is below what I expect out of the captain of an NHL team. Earning (I use that term loosely) almost $110K per game, dude is getting over big time.

Jordan Staal has shown some of his skills and toughness, though I believe he is overpaid for what he produces. ThinIce is right about seeing what kind of performance Bill Peters can get out of these guys and how well they buy into his system. I'm past ready to be pleasantly surprised.

Jim
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The good news is Staal the elder only has two years left on his contract, at what is now, a reasonable rate for most teams to bear. If he continues his stagnuts play on this team fine, he is perfectly suitable trade bait. He will garner a respectable return, even in a down year. If he plays great and we are in the hunt, trade him anyhow and get a glorious return.
 
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