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The ****ing Season Thread

and they're not spreading out money to the bottom 6....they've actually reduced it significantly. komarov is the only guy they signed for the bottom six that's getting much over one mil. there's clarkson too of course, but that was never a bottom six signing, that was a mistake. with bolland gone the bottom six is cheaper than it was last year. leafs have done a good job getting solid players on cheap contracts for the bottom six.

out - in

bolland 3.4 ------ komarov 3.0
kulemin 2.8 ------ santorelli 1.5
mcclement 1.5 --- winnik 1.3
Raymond 1.0 ---- booth 1.1
smithson 0.8 ---- kontiola 1.1
d'amigo 0.9-------- frattin 0.8

10.4 (16.2% of cap) ---- 8.8 (12.8%)
 
It seems to be the Chicago method. Everyone has said to build through the draft, build through the draft, yet teams that have bottomed out still don't have that success. Pittsburgh not included because of Sid and the lottery.

But Chicago, Boston, and LA seem to have done it right. Pay your star players the money they deserve. and rotate serviceable third liners in. With the hunger of a pay day, those third liners play better. They get the space because of the efforts against the big money guys... and once they deserve more money.... replace them with another crop of young, inexpensive hungry players. Rinse and repeat.
 
The Leafs moves with regards to the cap this summer was very good. Look how much Kulemin got in Long Island. We got guys with better stats for 1/3 that amount.
 
the idea of not pinching and not having forwards cover the points is retarded.

Agreed! The idea of being good defensievely is seperating the opponent from the puck and maintaining it in the other team's end for long stretches of time. The Leafs back off when other teams come at them through the neurtal zone and resort to collapsing back close to the goalie, which exposes tons of shots from the point.... its such a simple concept take away time and space at the points is the way to do it.
 
I can't ever remember a time where the team put this much focus on playing defense from day one. The wingers aren't going to be collapsing in their own end. Dmen aren't going to be pinching at the blue line. They are being told to not expect a forward to cover for them. They are really stripping it down and playing a more conservative style of hockey. That over aggressive cheating has always killed this team, and led to odd man situations, easy zone enteries, and terrible zone exits. If this team can't play a simple, conservative game that would be pretty pathetic. If they can there is no way they get outshot and out possessed like they have the last couple of years. ...

Who knows if the changes will lead to different results. But they should lead to a different team.
Different team is true, but I'm sorry to burst anyone's bubble ... those changes to the defensive system sound pretty stupid to me.

Forwards not collapsing in our own zone like they did last year is a welcomed change, but the more important thing is the forwards have to try harder to cover the points and take away the point shots. They also have to compete much harder at the points to make sure after our dmen wins the puck battle, we can indeed get the puck out instead of allowing our opponents to regain the puck at the point. Last year it wasn't so much the forwards collapsing (though that did happen and was a problem too) but it was the forwards's inability / reluctance to cover the points and take away the point shots. It was a combination of playing too deep (collapsing) AND low compete level.

Asking defenseman to NOT to pinch and not expecting the F's to cover the points, OTOH, is stupid - especially when you have guys like Rielly, Phaneuf, Gardiner, Franson and Robidas on your blueline. 5 of you 6 dmen are basically offensive defenseman. Many successful NHL teams rely on their Dmen pinching in creating an odd-man situation, and Toronto (ESPECIALLY Toronto, in fact) should play that style.

The problem with our defense last year was NOT our dmen pinching and giving up oddman rush. We generated more offense than the defence we gave up by pinching. The problem with our defense was we freely and willingly conceded the neutral zone (never tried to slow down or turnover the puck in neutral zone) allowing easy entrance into our d-zone. And in our d-zone, we again willingly conceded the perimeter ... our opponents can cycle and pass around the puck around the perimeter all period long, without our D or F trying to stop either the man or the puck at the perimeter. That was the biggest problem. Every defensive transition was like a PK where we allowed easy passing around the outside, until they can find a seam and shoot / pass to the man in front. That is really the biggest culprit to our ridiculous SA.

The first thing we gotta change is how we play in the neutral zone. Instead of asking our dmen not to join the rush, they should be asked, together with the F's, that as a 5 man unit they should engage in slowing down and trying to break up opponent's entrance through the neutral zone.

Once in our zone, our dmen gotta compete harder in the corners and along the board, our F's gotta apply more pressure at the corners, the wingers gotta compete harder at the point to gain puck possession, the C gotta pressure and breakup the pass up the middle.

If Carlyle is trying to tighten up defense by limiting our offensive chances that we take, then he's got it completely wrong (which, wouldn't be a surprise to me ... if he can fix it, he would have fixed it at some point during last season). The Leafs are a great offensive team, and we're a strong counter-attack team. Trying to limit our dmen pinching will hold back our biggest strength, and it won't fix our defensive weakness.
 
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and they're not spreading out money to the bottom 6....they've actually reduced it significantly. komarov is the only guy they signed for the bottom six that's getting much over one mil. there's clarkson too of course, but that was never a bottom six signing, that was a mistake. with bolland gone the bottom six is cheaper than it was last year. leafs have done a good job getting solid players on cheap contracts for the bottom six.

out - in

bolland 3.4 ------ komarov 3.0
kulemin 2.8 ------ santorelli 1.5
mcclement 1.5 --- winnik 1.3
Raymond 1.0 ---- booth 1.1
smithson 0.8 ---- kontiola 1.1
d'amigo 0.9-------- frattin 0.8

10.4 (16.2% of cap) ---- 8.8 (12.8%)

That Komarov contract kills me. This guy will get 10 point this season.
 
For 3 million he better get at least 30 points and be so annoying he requires an armed escort into and out of opposing arenas.
 
For 3 million he better get at least 30 points and be so annoying he requires an armed escort into and out of opposing arenas.

Yea, that right there. This guy was an absolute blackhole last time he was here.

Mindz= Internet Thug.

No bet. I will love to be wrong. But him scoring 15-20 points still isn't worth that contract. I see a couple of guy potentially outproducing him in Holland, Santorelli, Booth, Winnik. I like Komarov, not his contract.
 
Different team is true, but I'm sorry to burst anyone's bubble ... those changes to the defensive system sound pretty stupid to me.

Forwards not collapsing in our own zone like they did last year is a welcomed change, but the more important thing is the forwards have to try harder to cover the points and take away the point shots. They also have to compete much harder at the points to make sure after our dmen wins the puck battle, we can indeed get the puck out instead of allowing our opponents to regain the puck at the point. Last year it wasn't so much the forwards collapsing (though that did happen and was a problem too) but it was the forwards's inability / reluctance to cover the points and take away the point shots. It was a combination of playing too deep (collapsing) AND low compete level.

Asking defenseman to NOT to pinch and not expecting the F's to cover the points, OTOH, is stupid - especially when you have guys like Rielly, Phaneuf, Gardiner, Franson and Robidas on your blueline. 5 of you 6 dmen are basically offensive defenseman. Many successful NHL teams rely on their Dmen pinching in creating an odd-man situation, and Toronto (ESPECIALLY Toronto, in fact) should play that style.

The problem with our defense last year was NOT our dmen pinching and giving up oddman rush. We generated more offense than the defence we gave up by pinching. The problem with our defense was we freely and willingly conceded the neutral zone (never tried to slow down or turnover the puck in neutral zone) allowing easy entrance into our d-zone. And in our d-zone, we again willingly conceded the perimeter ... our opponents can cycle and pass around the puck around the perimeter all period long, without our D or F trying to stop either the man or the puck at the perimeter. That was the biggest problem. Every defensive transition was like a PK where we allowed easy passing around the outside, until they can find a seam and shoot / pass to the man in front. That is really the biggest culprit to our ridiculous SA.

The first thing we gotta change is how we play in the neutral zone. Instead of asking our dmen not to join the rush, they should be asked, together with the F's, that as a 5 man unit they should engage in slowing down and trying to break up opponent's entrance through the neutral zone.

Once in our zone, our dmen gotta compete harder in the corners and along the board, our F's gotta apply more pressure at the corners, the wingers gotta compete harder at the point to gain puck possession, the C gotta pressure and breakup the pass up the middle.

If Carlyle is trying to tighten up defense by limiting our offensive chances that we take, then he's got it completely wrong (which, wouldn't be a surprise to me ... if he can fix it, he would have fixed it at some point during last season). The Leafs are a great offensive team, and we're a strong counter-attack team. Trying to limit our dmen pinching will hold back our biggest strength, and it won't fix our defensive weakness.

Pretty much this! Point shots are where a lot of scoring chances and goals come from due to shots going through, rebounds and deflections in front. I lost count of how many times the players backed off through the NZ and collapsed back in front and allowed an absurd amount of quanity and quality of shots, its such a misconception that you need to be physical to be good defensviely, actually in theory the Leafs SHOULD be a good defensive squad given how fast skating most of the players are, I hope for a change they use their speed to take time and space away from the opponents, espically the pointmen.

One thing I disagree with is that the Leafs are a strong counter attack team, IMO that couldn't be more wrong IMO. Strong counter attack teams DONT spend much time in their own end, they quickly get the puck up ice to the offensive end and go into attack mode, the Leafs on the other hand struggle badly transitioning the puck... sure when they are in the offensive end they have skill and speed but a good transition team? Nope.
 
That Komarov contract kills me. This guy will get 10 point this season.

You say that like its fact, its just your opinion man. Komorov when he was here in 12/13 had he played a full 82 game season he would have hit 17 points and that was without any powerplay time. Nonis hinted that they might try Komarov out there on one of the powerplay units, if he gets 3rd line e/s minutes coupled with secondary powerplay time I think he could go as high as 30 points, I think a more healthy point range is 15-20 points but again thats just my opinion.
 
It seems to be the Chicago method. Everyone has said to build through the draft, build through the draft, yet teams that have bottomed out still don't have that success. Pittsburgh not included because of Sid and the lottery.

But Chicago, Boston, and LA seem to have done it right. Pay your star players the money they deserve. and rotate serviceable third liners in. With the hunger of a pay day, those third liners play better. They get the space because of the efforts against the big money guys... and once they deserve more money.... replace them with another crop of young, inexpensive hungry players. Rinse and repeat.

The key is finding that core star player group that can have success. Without that, who cares what you do with the 3rd and 4th liners as they aren't winning you a cup.

The top 6, at bare minimum need to prove they are playoff competitors for it to work.
 
Different team is true, but I'm sorry to burst anyone's bubble ... those changes to the defensive system sound pretty stupid to me.

Forwards not collapsing in our own zone like they did last year is a welcomed change, but the more important thing is the forwards have to try harder to cover the points and take away the point shots. They also have to compete much harder at the points to make sure after our dmen wins the puck battle, we can indeed get the puck out instead of allowing our opponents to regain the puck at the point. Last year it wasn't so much the forwards collapsing (though that did happen and was a problem too) but it was the forwards's inability / reluctance to cover the points and take away the point shots. It was a combination of playing too deep (collapsing) AND low compete level.

That was all caused by the forwards collapsing. They were trying to outnumber the offense down low. Of course the points aren't being covered in that situation. It wasn't not trying hard enough. They flat out left the points open, to "swarm" down low. Just not doing that solves all of those problems. The points are covered. You have better outlet plays. Its back to the basics.

Asking defenseman to NOT to pinch and not expecting the F's to cover the points, OTOH, is stupid - especially when you have guys like Rielly, Phaneuf, Gardiner, Franson and Robidas on your blueline. 5 of you 6 dmen are basically offensive defenseman. Many successful NHL teams rely on their Dmen pinching in creating an odd-man situation, and Toronto (ESPECIALLY Toronto, in fact) should play that style.

The problem with our defense last year was NOT our dmen pinching and giving up oddman rush. We generated more offense than the defence we gave up by pinching. The problem with our defense was we freely and willingly conceded the neutral zone (never tried to slow down or turnover the puck in neutral zone) allowing easy entrance into our d-zone. And in our d-zone, we again willingly conceded the perimeter ... our opponents can cycle and pass around the puck around the perimeter all period long, without our D or F trying to stop either the man or the puck at the perimeter. That was the biggest problem. Every defensive transition was like a PK where we allowed easy passing around the outside, until they can find a seam and shoot / pass to the man in front. That is really the biggest culprit to our ridiculous SA.

The first thing we gotta change is how we play in the neutral zone. Instead of asking our dmen not to join the rush, they should be asked, together with the F's, that as a 5 man unit they should engage in slowing down and trying to break up opponent's entrance through the neutral zone.

Its conservative not stupid. That will improve the neutral zone play. That is the whole point. The Leafs dmen making stupid pinches and the forward not covering back caused countless odd man rushes over the last few years. You give up the neutral zone easy, then you give up your zone easy. All of these things are related.

These small adjustments will solve literally all the issues you touch in that post.

And those are just two small tweaks, among others.


If Carlyle is trying to tighten up defense by limiting our offensive chances that we take, then he's got it completely wrong (which, wouldn't be a surprise to me ... if he can fix it, he would have fixed it at some point during last season). The Leafs are a great offensive team, and we're a strong counter-attack team. Trying to limit our dmen pinching will hold back our biggest strength, and it won't fix our defensive weakness.

Everyone says we need to be a better defensive, more puck possession team. But now all of a sudden they should go back to a free wheeling counter punch team? We want this team to be a better defensive team. They'll never have trouble scoring with the amount of talent they have here. They just want to play more responsibly because last year was a shit show.
 
I hate the Intangibles argument. Most of the time it is pure B.S. But Komorov is a lot more valuable than it shows on the stats sheet
 
D*cks.

Good. I hope i'm wrong. Same as the Raptors. Though this Leafs team leaves a lot to be desired.
 
Everyone says we need to be a better defensive, more puck possession team. But now all of a sudden they should go back to a free wheeling counter punch team? We want this team to be a better defensive team. They'll never have trouble scoring with the amount of talent they have here. They just want to play more responsibly because last year was a shit show.[/QUOTE]

The best way to be good defensievely is to spend as little time in your end as possible and as much time as possible carrying the play in the other end, if you watch all the good teams (notice I used to word good) when they are in their own end all 5 guys are back and being aggressive on the puck carrier at the point forcing him to make a mistake and once they gain the puck its quickly up ice into the other teams end.

One of the main reasons we were brutal defensively last season was like you said we backed off too quickly in the neutral zone, another key factor was how the players the majority of the time collapsed back in front of Bernier/Reimer and allowed the other time all day and Sunday to shoot on us and hem us in our own end.

The easiest way to rectify this is to NOT collapse back in front, instead step up in the netural zone to limit time and space and when we're in our end go right at the puck carrier and pointmen to limit shots against. I'd rather teams get some shots from down low then the points but again that's just me.

Under Wilson, while we weren't great defensively we weren't that bad either and we gave up a lot less shots against then under Carlye's regime.... the big downfall with Wilson's team was horrible goaltending for must of his run that's a huge reason why we had so many goals against.
 
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