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The ****ing Season Thread

2014-15 Leafs Point Shares
1. Bernier - 6.3
2. Kessel - 5.1
3. JVR - 4.6
4. Franson - 4.3
5. Phaneuf - 3.3

2013-14 Leafs Point Shares
1. Bernier - 12.6
2. Kessel - 10.3
3. JVR - 7.1
4. Phaneuf - 6.0
5. Bozak - 5.8
6. Kadri - 5.1
 
Lets be honest, the team lives and dies with Kessel. The team slumps, and even stuggle to win games every time Kessel slumps. When he on one of his scoring streaks they go on insane runs.

Phaneuf doesn't impact the game in the way a guy like Kessel does, which has been the issue. If the Leafs had two impact players like Kessel, for when he falls off, they'd be in a different position.

Phaneuf has just kind of settled into that 30 point, 22-23 minute a night guy. He just flat out hasn't been a good enough player to pick up the team when Kessel isn't around to do it.

phaneuf was a 25mpg 45pt dman in his first two healthy seasons here, culminating with our first playoff appearance in a decade, in which he went toe to toe with Lucic for seven games of a dead even series.

and then for some reason the prevailing wisdom became him needing his minutes cut the next year, which didn't work out for him or the team.

he was at s 45pt pace all this year until this recent teamwide slump, too.
 
They have much bigger problems than Phaneuf but yeah, he's about 2 million dollars overpaid (at least) at the moment and appears to be on the downswing of his career. I know we like to force the narrative of "Leafs top end d gets underrated in Toronto all the time!!111." I agree that it has been true in the past, particularly with McCabe, but just because it has been a pattern in this city, it doesn't mean that it's the case every time. There are some exceptions, and Phaneuf is one of them. He gets flack because he deserves flack.

And no zeke, he isn't as good as Shae freaking Weber. I'm glad you've stopped with that though.
 
If we had a Shea Weber on that first pair, and a Babcock behind the bench, Dion would be invaluable and worth every penny.
 
But they don't have a Shea Weber, and those aren't easy to find.

The question becomes if Phaneuf is on the decline, considering how far away the Leafs are, do you move on from him to: (a) get value while there is still value in return; and (b) be proactive to get out of that contract before it becomes a bad, immovable contract.

If the Leafs were competitive now, I don't think its even a question, you keep Phaneuf. Same goes for if Phaneuf was that 25+ minute stud #1 dman. But this team was put together 6 years ago, and this was the time frame they were looking forward to at that time to compete. When Phaneuf, Kessel and Lupul are in their primes, and guys like Kadri, Gardiner, Franson etc. are no longer young players but in their mid 20s. But the problem is the team stinks. It was poorly put together, and is missing some very key parts.

At this point we are just hoping for Nylander and Rielly to become stars, like we were hoping guys like Kadri, Bozak and Gardiner became stars. Its not a great position to be in. especialy because by the time those guys are Kadri/Bozak/Gardiner age, Phaneuf will be 34-35. We have no cap space, a core that is in its prime years and can't even compete for a playoff spot, an average farm system, and will continue drafting in no mans land.

They need to find impact players at center and defense. This is impossible to do without any cap flexibility if those opportunities even arise. Those types of players just haven't been available in free agency though. Boston seems to be the only team that trades them and they are running out of talent. While the solutions may appear simple, because its so clear what this team needs, they are some of the hardest vacancies to fill to a championship level.

It might be time to move forward on the premise that this team isn't competing any time soon. And I'm not talking about for a playoff spot. That should an achievable goal, even with drastic changes. But we want to build this organization into a winner.
 
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They have much bigger problems than Phaneuf but yeah, he's about 2 million dollars overpaid (at least) at the moment and appears to be on the downswing of his career. I know we like to force the narrative of "Leafs top end d gets underrated in Toronto all the time!!111." I agree that it has been true in the past, particularly with McCabe, but just because it has been a pattern in this city, it doesn't mean that it's the case every time. There are some exceptions, and Phaneuf is one of them. He gets flack because he deserves flack.

And no zeke, he isn't as good as Shae freaking Weber. I'm glad you've stopped with that though.

I feel like anytime people say X player is "at least ---- overpaid", they always way, way overstate it and completely ignore any comparables.
 
Nah I'd compare him to an Alex Edler type. Sure there are people like Orpik making 5.5, but that's like saying Bolland isn't that overpaid because Clarkson makes 5.25. I think a guy like Edler is a good comparison. Both used to be a lot better offensively, but their entire games have tailed off in recent years. Although Edler has bounced back a bit this season, at least defensively. I'd say Phaneuf is worth 5-5.5 per year, and that's not a bad thing. That makes him a very good player still and he still has positive value. My only concern is what he'll be as the years go on.
 
Nah I'd compare him to an Alex Edler type. Sure there are people like Orpik making 5.5, but that's like saying Bolland isn't that overpaid because Clarkson makes 5.25. I think a guy like Edler is a good comparison. Both used to be a lot better offensively, but their entire games have tailed off in recent years. Although Edler has bounced back a bit this season, at least defensively. I'd say Phaneuf is worth 5-5.5 per year, and that's not a bad thing. That makes him a very good player still and he still has positive value. My only concern is what he'll be as the years go on.

Nah, not just based on one or two outliers. I still feel like if you look at the list of defensemen making 5 million per year there's a whole lot of players clearly worse than Dion there, not just a couple outliers.
 
Well, I'd argue Dion is a lot better than an Orpik or Matt Niskanen. And he's better than Franson, and Franson could get $6 mill on the open market. So I'm not sure how overpaid he is. If his offensive game stays at about ~40 point pace, I think it's pretty good value.
 
phaneuf was a 25mpg 45pt dman in his first two healthy seasons here, culminating with our first playoff appearance in a decade, in which he went toe to toe with Lucic for seven games of a dead even series.

and then for some reason the prevailing wisdom became him needing his minutes cut the next year, which didn't work out for him or the team.

he was at s 45pt pace all this year until this recent teamwide slump, too.

whatever his pace is or has been, or whatever... he has topped 32 points exactly once in the 6 seasons he has played with the maple leafs.

as for his plus minus.

fine.

he has been on the ice for at least one ES goal against in almost every single game for a month now.

no need to be verbose.

he has played very poorly.
 
whatever his pace is or has been, or whatever... he has topped 32 points exactly once in the 6 seasons he has played with the maple leafs.

as for his plus minus.

fine.

he has been on the ice for at least one ES goal against in almost every single game for a month now.

no need to be verbose.

he has played very poorly.

To be fair, the Leafs have barely any goals in the past month..
 
looks like clarkson is finally back down to the 4th line tonight.

bet he's still on the pp though.
 
Well, I'd argue Dion is a lot better than an Orpik or Matt Niskanen. And he's better than Franson, and Franson could get $6 mill on the open market. So I'm not sure how overpaid he is. If his offensive game stays at about ~40 point pace, I think it's pretty good value.

Yeah, I've been critical of Dion, but he's not overpaid. He would have gotten that easily on the open market. Those 2 Washington D signings have really inflated the market now.
 
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