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GDT: Leafs vs. Smurfs - Round 790 - 7:00 PM - Sports Net

TheCountofMonteCristo said:
Poorly phrased or not as I rushed on a smartphone, even you should be able to understand it.

But since you seem to lack the ability to infer, I will rephrase.

I was advised that to determine if a stat is important, one must just know if it is predictive of success. You also stated use your own logic and critical thinking. Therefore, I asked if I can just use logic to determine how quality an opponent might be to determine QoC when lining up against said player in the defensive zone. That would help me determine sheltered minutes, sheltered competition correct?

One simply by rote cannot say, well that is a "first line" so that has to be high quality. One must look at the individual player you line up against each and every shift n'est ce pas? When Travis Moen played on our first line at times, that certainly could not be said to be high quality competition. Hell one could argue that lining up in the defensive zone against him means one is being sheltered.

As an aside, who determines QoC? Is it the individual who is relying on the stat or are you just using someone else's definition of QoC?

At least with save percentage, shooting percentage etc, there are actual numbers to use. QofC seems to be a nerd creation that is subject to a hell of a lot of interpretation as to what constitutes QoC.
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You lost me. What's this all have to do with SV%?
 
There are tons of things you can measure, and it is up to experience and experimentation to determine how valuable those measurements are.

The standard goalie stats have been around for a very long time so we have a great understanding of those.

The advanced stats are in their early stages of development, so those lines aren't as clearly drawn. At least in terms of what is available to the public. But if you are refer ing to Corsi rel QoC it measures the Corsi rel of the players a player plays against. They are actual numbers. We know exactly what they mean. Whether they are the most accurate QoC measurement or not remains to be seen.

Really there is no difference between advanced stats and regular stats other than the former are more recently developed and kept track of. They all measure something tangible.
 
Pronger84 said:
Exactly it's my opinion on the matter, never said it was fact but somehow your choosing to believe otherwise. I have said countless times where I stand on this which is I feel both guys should be alternated until one gets on a roll, and I have also said there's a sick sense of entitlement with this team and that it wouldn't shock me that bernier gets the nod on Saturday.
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Prove this sense of entitlement cause I'm not seeing it.
 
Maybe there is a sense of entitlement...earned by Bernier for posting the number he did last year....if he struggles then it is fleeting, but treating Bernier being the number 1 to start this season as a failing by the management or coaching staff is an overreaction. Bernier is entitled to the starters job as long as he puts up good numbers...one mediocre start shouldn't change that.
 
rated said:
Prove this sense of entitlement cause I'm not seeing it.
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If u want some examples let's start with last season with Orr being given minutes over far better players, mccleement being given overloaded minutes despite showing he couldn't handle the minutes, franson not being benched despite poor play.

This season carrick being sent down despite playing well yet fratting getting multiple chances despite poor play. Even last game the Kessel line wasn't good yet they go rewarded ice time vs the Kadri line who played well yet didn't get much time on the ice.
 
That's not entitlement, that's just poor asset management and a lack of depth. Carrick was sent down because he doesn't have to clear waivers, and they wanted to see if Frattin could figure his shit out.
 
TheCountofMonteCristo said:
Poorly phrased or not as I rushed on a smartphone, even you should be able to understand it.

But since you seem to lack the ability to infer, I will rephrase.

I was advised that to determine if a stat is important, one must just know if it is predictive of success. You also stated use your own logic and critical thinking. Therefore, I asked if I can just use logic to determine how quality an opponent might be to determine QoC when lining up against said player in the defensive zone. That would help me determine sheltered minutes, sheltered competition correct?

One simply by rote cannot say, well that is a "first line" so that has to be high quality. One must look at the individual player you line up against each and every shift n'est ce pas? When Travis Moen played on our first line at times, that certainly could not be said to be high quality competition. Hell one could argue that lining up in the defensive zone against him means one is being sheltered.

As an aside, who determines QoC? Is it the individual who is relying on the stat or are you just using someone else's definition of QoC?

At least with save percentage, shooting percentage etc, there are actual numbers to use. QofC seems to be a nerd creation that is subject to a hell of a lot of interpretation as to what constitutes QoC.
Click to expand...

QoC is just the corsi of the opposing players you are on the ice with.

much like saying "all his icetime comes against ppg+ players" or "all his icetime comes agsinst top plus/minus players".

those are all different ways of attempting to describe the quality of competition a player faces.

in this case, QoC is using corsi to describe it.
 
Pronger84 said:
If u want some examples let's start with last season with Orr being given minutes over far better players, mccleement being given overloaded minutes despite showing he couldn't handle the minutes, franson not being benched despite poor play.

This season carrick being sent down despite playing well yet fratting getting multiple chances despite poor play. Even last game the Kessel line wasn't good yet they go rewarded ice time vs the Kadri line who played well yet didn't get much time on the ice.
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I thought we were talking about Reimer and Bernier ? lol
 
rated said:
I thought we were talking about Reimer and Bernier ? lol
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To be even more accurate, this entire re-hash of the Reimer vs Bernier started with which one has the better record against the Pens. Pronger states, (and I agree) that if Reimer has the better overall record against the Pens, then he should start THAT game.
It wasn't supposed to be yet another twenty pages about who earned the overall starter job in Toronto, but alas, there are so many butt-hurt posters here, they couldn't resist going off on that tangent yet again.
Reimer should start against the Pens in this back to back, for no other reason than he has the better overall record against them. That's it, that's all.
 
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