Can a coach change?

I think many would agree that this team is at least moderately improved over last season. In theory, they should be a better team than the 2012-13 team. The blueline is definitely better, there's a small handful of very talented young players who are on the cusp (Kadri, JVR, Gardiner, Rielly), the goaltending is arguably better, and there's probably better depth on the forward lines.

I skipped last year, not because I'd like to erase that memory (I would!), but because Carlyle coached the 2012-13 team to a pretty good record. Of course, it was a short season and he was also instrumental in the 4 minute collapse in Boston. What ties last season's collapse and that 4 minute collapse together is his excessive reliance on a few players. Of course, it's important to note that throughout all of it, the Leafs' possession game and defensive system was really weak.

Can Carlyle learn from his mistakes? He's easily my biggest worry about this team. I think they're pretty good otherwise.

Can a coach change?

Has he coached any differently his entire career? If not,I'd say change will be very difficult for him. I'd also be a bit worried that even if he does change, he will fall into the old habits again when things don't go well.

One thing i hated about Carlye's system last year was how we collapsed in front of our net so often. We looked very good in that last preseason game and Carlyle said he wants forwards to rush the point and take away the shot..I'm very optimistic if they keep doing it like that. Couldn't figure out what the point was of collapsing when no forward(well rarely) was willing to block shots. Everything else i agreed with him(in terms of needing more possession type players, playing tough as a team, better compete level, etc).

See: Hitchcock, Ken.

I'm withholding judgment until we've seen this version of the team play together for awhile.

BeLeafer said:

I think many would agree that this team is at least moderately improved over last season. In theory, they should be a better team than the 2012-13 team. The blueline is definitely better, there's a small handful of very talented young players who are on the cusp (Kadri, JVR, Gardiner, Rielly), the goaltending is arguably better, and there's probably better depth on the forward lines.

I skipped last year, not because I'd like to erase that memory (I would!), but because Carlyle coached the 2012-13 team to a pretty good record. Of course, it was a short season and he was also instrumental in the 4 minute collapse in Boston. What ties last season's collapse and that 4 minute collapse together is his excessive reliance on a few players. Of course, it's important to note that throughout all of it, the Leafs' possession game and defensive system was really weak.

Can Carlyle learn from his mistakes? He's easily my biggest worry about this team. I think they're pretty good otherwise.

Can a coach change?

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100% with you on this.

I think a coach is capable of change but I wonder if Carlyle is. Mostly because he didn't really seem to have any answers last season or be able to make any adjustments as the season went on.

the good coaches can. and the question with randy might be more whether he's willing to change than if he can change.

i saw some good signs in the neutral zone play in the preseason and in the roster selections, so i have a bit of hope at least.

The most encouraging thing for me was the final two games of the preseason.

It certainly looked like they were playing a different system than what we've seen previously with Carlyle. I think this is where Horachuk comes in, if I'm not mistaken. They were also playing the right complement of players (i.e., using the four lines). It's the latter part that worries me the most. The new assistants should be able to fix the system issues, but the ice time decisions ultimately reside with Carlyle. Taking the goons and McSelke away from him will at least help to mitigate some of his worst habits.

BeLeafer said:

The most encouraging thing for me was the final two games of the preseason.

It certainly looked like they were playing a different system than what we've seen previously with Carlyle. I think this is where Horachuk comes in, if I'm not mistaken. They were also playing the right complement of players (i.e., using the four lines). It's the latter part that worries me the most. The new assistants should be able to fix the system issues, but the ice time decisions ultimately reside with Carlyle. Taking the goons and McSelke away from him will at least help to mitigate some of his worst habits.

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Yeah, I'll be really pissed if our fourth line continues to get <6 minutes/night. We finally have a fourth line that can actually play hockey, would be a damn shame not to use it. And having the luxury of rolling four lines gives you a lot more flexibility throughout your lineup, easier to move players up/down, mix and match lines, etc. If Carlyle makes no use of our added depth...

I suspect he'll be fired pretty quickly if he does that. Or maybe I should say I hope that's the case.

If he wants to keep his job (and potential career) he will change.

Randy's gotta know he's on a short leash to start the season you would think. A shit start pretty much guarantees he's gone if you ask me.

I'm cautiously optimistic here, I mean I like the changes I have seen in the preason which is reverting fromcollapsing back in front to the players using their speed to aggressively charging at the oppositon through the neutral zone pressuring the opponent into making mistakes now is this really Carlye adapting because he wants to or because management is forcing his hand?

The Leafs biggest strength is their speed so why did it take Carlyle 3 years to realize this? You don't have to be this big crashing thug like team to play defense actually to me its a huge misconception, defense is all about using your speed to take the puck away from the oppoent then quickly transfer it up ice and hem the other team in their own end for long periods. To me the Leafs actually have what it takes to be a solid defensive hockey club its' just that the players have been completley mismanaged by the coach and told to do the wrong thing out there on the ice the majority of the time.

If the Leafs can somehow keep applying the system they have been using in the preseason, manage to cut down the shots to even about 30 a game against and they get increased offensive scoring from the 2nd and 3rd lines there's no reason to think this team can't fight it out for a home ice spot in the playoffs. However if Carlyle goes back to his stubborn ways, and if we don't get that secondary offense we so badly need then I can easily see this team falling out of the race and staying out of it come April.

Wayward DP said:

Randy's gotta know he's on a short leash to start the season you would think. A shit start pretty much guarantees he's gone if you ask me.

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For a change we agree on something here! I think if the Leafs go something like 9-16 to stat the season I think Carlyle is done and they appoint Spott as interim coach until they can find a suitable replacement. Carlyle to me is one losing streak away from being out of a job, JMO of course.

Wayward DP said:

Randy's gotta know he's on a short leash to start the season you would think. A shit start pretty much guarantees he's gone if you ask me.

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Which might be a bad thing....he will fall on old habits to try and save his job instead of working through the pains of the players learning a new system.

I think some coaches can change, but I won't hold my breath on that for Carlyle. I just can't be optimistic about his coaching since he's been coaching the same style for SO LONG, and it's not like he hasn't been through failures already ... he was fired from Anaheim and if he couldn't / didn't change through that, how can I believe he can / will change when he has a 2 yrs extension in his hands now?

All is not lost though, as I believe Horacek will have some impact on our defensive system. I think we've seen flashes of it through pre-season.

Nonis has also limited Carlyle's option with the roster. He traded away McClement and sent Orr and McLaren to the AHL, so Carlyle has no choice but to make changes to his minutes and how he utilize the 3rd and 4th lines.

At the end of the day though, how much can a GM and assistant coaches impact the head coach's coaching on ice, and in-game adjustment? Very little, but with our revamped roster that might already be enough for us to make the playoff.

I am not at all against a terrible start that pushes Nonis to fire Carlyle early in the season and bring in someone like Bylsma though.

I'm pretty pumped about this team. If Carlyle screws us for another season or they let him do it, I may have to start watching curling.

Tonight was not encouraging. Randy did precisely what has caused so much grief in the past -- leaning on the top line and Dion. To make matters worse, he did it when none of them were playing particularly well, while most other guys in the lineup were playing at least pretty well. Why the top line gets 6-7 minutes more than that Kadri line after they dominated in the first is beyond me.

BeLeafer said:

Tonight was not encouraging. Randy did precisely what has caused so much grief in the past -- leaning on the top line and Dion. To make matters worse, he did it when none of them were playing particularly well, while most other guys in the lineup were playing at least pretty well. Why the top line gets 6-7 minutes more than that Kadri line after they dominated in the first is beyond me.

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Because Randy won't change.
A coach can change. Some other proverbial coach, maybe, but this one lacks the impetus to do so.

I don't mind leaning on Kessel and Phaneuf like that. Phaneuf only played 23 minutes, and the D usage was actually pretty balanced. Polak was around 17 and everyone else was around 19-20. Thats perfect.

And Kessel needs to play more than everyone else. It would be stupid to play him 16 minutes a game. He should be up around 20. But you do that by mixing him in with the other lines. Not by playing Bozak 20 minutes a game too. You double shift him for Kozun or Frattin here and there. Bozak just isn't a 20 minute a game player. Especially when he is losing draws and getting pushed around by midgets like Desharnais.

But Carlyle used four lines. He used all 3 D pairs. The usage wasn't very similar to last year.

The Leafs breakouts were much better. It wasn't all the forwards flying up the ice and the D hanging back and making stretch passes. There were typically all 5 guys in the frame, and they made quick passes, and really tried to hang onto the puck instead of just firing it up the boards.

Overall it was a typical sloppy first game of the season, but there were definitely reasons to be encouraged.

Yeah, I liked Carlyle's ice-time distribution as well, for the most part last night. And while there were flashes of last year's Leafs at times, when they'd collapse towards the net and allow the Habs to move the puck around at will, for the most part I thought the game was pretty even, with the Leafs carrying the play for stretches as well.

A really unlucky bounce off Percy for the 4th Montreal goal though, along with a couple stinkers from Bernier, and we walk away with no points. C'est la vie. Move on to the next game.