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GDT BOS @ TOR - Kessel is BigZ-Free

rated said:
You really need better reading comprehension. I'm going to let you figure out how those 2 statements contradict each other. Then i'll come correct you when you draw up the wrong conclusion.
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My reading comprehension is quite fine thanks and I know exactly what Geeman was referring to which is teams build around the wing positions last instead of first.

You'll correct me on me drawing up a wrong conclusion, the arrogance on this board is large lol.
 
Pronger84 said:
My reading comprehension is quite fine thanks and I know exactly what Geeman was referring to which is teams build around the wing positions last instead of first.

You'll correct me on me drawing up a wrong conclusion, the arrogance on this board is large lol.
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No the point was that elite winger can't be the only foundation piece. The order does not matter. You do not pass up on getting an elite player because "sorry I need to get an elite center first"

And your reading comprehension is ****ing terrible. I'm sorry dude, I don't like to hop on the bandwagon and rip on you like everyone else likes to do here, but everyone is always constantly correcting you on what you say. Case in point your argument with wayward DP.

and you call patrick ****ing kane a complimentary player dude...
 
Geeman said "you need to have pieces like doughty, towes, quick and kopitatar before you land a guy like Kessel" which means you need to have the key ones set before landing a guy like Kessel. That is what he said, how exactly did I misterpet that... Of course a guy like Kessel is a nice player to have but not someone to build around imo.
 
Pronger84 said:
Geeman said "you need to have pieces like doughty, towes, quick and kopitatar before you land a guy like Kessel" which means you need to have the key ones set before landing a guy like Kessel. That is what he said, how exactly did I misterpet that... Of course a guy like Kessel is a nice player to have but not someone to build around imo.
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I dont think you misunderstood, but i do think you are silly for agreeing with him.

The order in which a team acquires it's elite pieces is irrelevant
 
Pronger84 said:
Geeman said "you need to have pieces like doughty, towes, quick and kopitatar before you land a guy like Kessel" which means you need to have the key ones set before landing a guy like Kessel. That is what he said, how exactly did I misterpet that... Of course a guy like Kessel is a nice player to have but not someone to build around imo.
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Then you are as dumb as he is. You called Patrick Kane a complimentary player.

Keep in mind the guys a Habs fan. They drafted their "elite center" that they plan to build around well after they got that elite winger to build around. The whole argument is contradicting.

The argument that you DONT go for guys like Kessel when they come up because you would rather get an elite center first is a dumb argument and a fireable offense if you're GM of a team.

It does not matter on the order you get these players, so long as you get them.
 
The habs also have an elite goalie as well as game breaking defencmen that they have built around and they make the playoffs almost every years, the leafs have built around Kessel and have only made the playoffs once since acquiring him.

All the good teams have won built on solid goaltending, depth on the blueline and stacked down the middle.
 
Pronger84 said:
The habs also have an elite goalie as well as game breaking defencmen that they have built around and they make the playoffs almost every years, the leafs have built around Kessel and have only made the playoffs once since acquiring him.

All the good teams have won built on solid goaltending, depth on the blueline and stacked down the middle.
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Good job on informing us on what everyone already knows. Montreal is much further a long than the Leafs currently are. The point ONCE AGAIN is it does not matter on the order you acquire these players, so long as you get them. The problem is Kessel is the only established elite player to build around. We're still waiting on Rielly/gardiner to make that step, or one of Bernier/Reimer to take charge etc

You also called patrick kane a complimentary player
 
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The Habs have an elite goalie?

Sv% Rank

13-14 - 2nd (T2)
12-13 - 21st
11-12 - 15th (T2)
10-11 - 5th (T3)
09-10 - 18th (T4)


He had an elite season last year, but there's no way that his track record is that of an elite goaltender. He is entering those prime goaltending years now, so last season could have been a sign of things to come, but until he strings at least 2 elite seasons together, it's pretty tough to call him an elite goalie.
 
MindzEye said:
The Habs have an elite goalie?

Sv% Rank

13-14 - 2nd (T2)
12-13 - 21st
11-12 - 15th (T2)
10-11 - 5th (T3)
09-10 - 18th (T4)


He had an elite season last year, but there's no way that his track record is that of an elite goaltender. He is entering those prime goaltending years now, so last season could have been a sign of things to come, but until he strings at least 2 elite seasons together, it's pretty tough to call him an elite goalie.
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Sorry to say but this is where stats don't do justice. I haven't heard of any reputable NHL analyst challenge the legitimacy of Carey Price as an elite goaltender since his third year in the league. Carey Price is, unfortunately for us, right up there with any goalie in the league.
 
Leafin' said:
Sorry to say but this is where stats don't do justice. I haven't heard of any reputable NHL analyst challenge the legitimacy of Carey Price as an elite goaltender since his third year in the league. Carey Price is, unfortunately for us, right up there with any goalie in the league.
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Yeaaaah...if we don't use SV% to measure goalies, what would you have us use? They are laid out there and they state Price hasn't strung together seasons of even top 15 SV% yet.
 
Pronger84 said:
The habs also have an elite goalie as well as game breaking defencmen that they have built around and they make the playoffs almost every years, the leafs have built around Kessel and have only made the playoffs once since acquiring him.

All the good teams have won built on solid goaltending, depth on the blueline and stacked down the middle.
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For argument sake lets say they did what you say, and didn't trade for Kessel because he is a winger and you need a center first.

Step 1: They don't make the Kessel trade.
Step 2: Presumably they draft Seguin.

Great so you have a center building block. But now you need to get a Kessel.

Whats the difference?
 
leafman101 said:
For argument sake lets say they did what you say, and didn't trade for Kessel because he is a winger and you need a center first.

Step 1: They don't make the Kessel trade.
Step 2: Presumably they draft Seguin.

Great so you have a center building block. But now you need to get a Kessel.

Whats the difference?
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Apparently "Kessels" are easy to find. That's why Ovie, Kane, Daniel Sedin, Marleau, and Perry have all been traded or switched teams via FA. Wait, what?
 
We had to give up two top 10 picks to get a Kessel.

Its not easy to get a guy with that kind of talent. There aren't enough of them to go around. I don't care what position he plays.
 
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Deckie007 said:
Yeaaaah...if we don't use SV% to measure goalies, what would you have us use? They are laid out there and they state Price hasn't strung together seasons of even top 15 SV% yet.
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I don't care what YOU use.

I don't care what the stats say. Price is an elite goaltender. I'm going into a playoff series, he's definitely in the discussion for goalies to use.
 
I'm not saying he's a terrible goalie, but the key indicators of goalie performance, especially in the playoffs, don't point to him being elite. A playoff .909 SV% and 2.74 GAA are below average.
 
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Two points to add.

1. Pronger, care to defend your claim that Patrick Kane is a nice complementary player?

2. Leafin', do we really need to lecture you about the fact that statistics (i.e. those things that accurately and objectively measure individual performance) are a more reliable source than 'the eye test'? Just out of curiosity, do you base this 'Price is elite' thing on anything other than your subjective opinion? Because if you have more than that to back it up, I'd love to hear it. Because you've seen his stats, and objectively haven't even tried to argue that they are elite, he just is because you said so?

I recall, stats and evidence be damned, you were also convinced the Raptors were a bottom feeding team last year, despite ME patiently showing why objective statistical measurements indicate that was not likely to be the case... Personally, I try to learn from my mistakes, but to each their own I suppose.
 
Wayward DP said:
I recall, stats and evidence be damned, you were also convinced the Raptors were a bottom feeding team last year, despite ME patiently showing why objective statistical measurements indicate that was not likely to be the case... Personally, I try to learn from my mistakes, but to each their own I suppose.
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I wasn't going to bring that up, but I'm glad you did. :lol
 
I was wrong about the Raptors, womp womp. I admitted i was wrong about the team.

i'm not discrediting the fact that statistics have a place in sports. I'm just saying that Carey Price is an elite goaltender.

Looking at stats:

Carey Price and his non elite .919 sv% in last years playoff took him the same distance as Super elite Tukka Rask and his .928 sv%. I don't care enough to argue about it, but i recall Price getting injured midway through that series. Another factor in diminishing his be all end all save percentage.

Carey Price was also named the starting goalie for the best hockey nation in the world that won the gold medal. All while posting a .971% and .59GAA.

Any other stats i need to waste time looking for?
 
Previous performance isn't always an indicator of future performance. i know its a tough concept to swallow in Leafland as we are less fortunate than others, but some players do get better with time.
 
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