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Question concerning lottery protected draft pick

MindzEye

MindzEye

Wayward Ditch Pig
Gentlemen.

Been in discussion with Axl concerning a matter of fine print from a trade that Axl asked me to bring to the group for discussion:

July 18th Soco, Myself, & Jays made a 3 way trade which involved Jayz 1st round pick from this season. This pick came with two major provisos. It was "lottery protected" and Soco has the ability to swap his first with that 1st this season should be deem necessary. The following day, it was decided that "the lottery" was going to be expanded to 8 teams up from 5.

This leaves the nature of the lottery protection on that pick in question as when the trade was agreed to, the lottery was 5 teams. In no way do I think I should have the lottery rights of the pick should it be a 6-8 pick (as that was never part of the trade in first place), but I do think I have the right to the 6-8 picks should the pick I own fall in there as that's what constituted a lottery pick on the day the trade was agreed to.
 
Seems like a fair compromise considering the rule was changed afterwards. That was the intent of the deal anyway.
 
My gut tells me that you get the pick if it's 6-8 you get the pick... unless it WINS the lottery... cause clearly when the trade was made there was no expectation that it could possibly win the lottery. And there was also no expectation for Jays to get to keep the pick if it was 6th or later.
 
Habspatrol said:
My gut tells me that you get the pick if it's 6-8 you get the pick... unless it WINS the lottery... cause clearly when the trade was made there was no expectation that it could possibly win the lottery. And there was also no expectation for Jays to get to keep the pick if it was 6th or later.
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We'd have to figure out the mechanics of that, but it would be easier to just omit it from the lottery altogether, no? Are we using a lottery generator this year, or linking up teams to the NHL lottery teams again?
 
Haha, too many votes then. Just remember talking about 8 team protection with jays, as if it was a given. Just don't have the convo anymore
 
MindzEye said:
We'd have to figure out the mechanics of that, but it would be easier to just omit it from the lottery altogether, no? Are we using a lottery generator this year, or linking up teams to the NHL lottery teams again?
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I don't even know what we're doing.

But if that pick falls within the lottery and wins then it obviously would belong to Jays.
 
If you read through the thread, majority for 8 was on July 18th too...just don't have time stamps. I wrote that 12 teams had voted for it on the 18th.

I guess Jays hasn't responded yet tho to see if he cares or not.
 
Habspatrol said:
I don't even know what we're doing.

But if that pick falls within the lottery and wins then it obviously would belong to Jays.
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I'd be fine with that as a compromise. He gets a shot at McDavid and I keep the pick otherwise (assuming Soco doesn't pick swap with his)

Short of that we're going to get into a lot of arguing about who believed what at the time of trade, when exactly the rule changed, etc.
 
MindzEye said:
I'd be fine with that as a compromise. He gets a shot at McDavid and I keep the pick otherwise (assuming Soco doesn't pick swap with his)

Short of that we're going to get into a lot of arguing about who believed what at the time of trade, when exactly the rule changed, etc.
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That's not a compromise to Jays? He went from a top 5/8 protected pick to only a top 1 protected pick...and as I would have first rights to his pick which sits in the lotto at the moment...know that's not fair to him and in the spirit of the trade.
 
soco22 said:
That's not a compromise to Jays? He went from a top 5/8 protected pick to only a top 1 protected pick...and as I would have first rights to his pick which sits in the lotto at the moment...know that's not fair to him and in the spirit of the trade.
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Okay...let's do this then.

On July 19th, 3:18pm Axl posted:

I think it was the Duo, voting twice.

As for when the 8-team lottery starts, what do people think? I guess since we're not matching up exactly with the NHL any longer, it wouldn't make sense to wait till 2016. So probably summer of 2015.
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The question as to when this would go into effect was asked by you, also on the 19th.

So how can we assume that the spirit of the trade included an 8 team lottery in 2015 when you were asking questions about when it went into effect on the 19th?

http://www.forumice.com/showthread.php?62287-Draft-Lottery-2-The-Final-Poll-Down/page4


I'm not trying to be a **** here, I sincerely thought I was signing on for a top 5 provided pick, as I've mentioned a number of times to a bunch of different posters in both trade talks and general strategy talks with Deckie & Mnij on messenger.

Apparently you had lingering questions to, as the day after we agreed to the trade, you were asking Axl questions, and as Axl's response indicated, no decision had been made prior to our trade being made.

As for the presumption that I should have known that this was being discussed, I would present the numerous polls we've had on other issues, some of them garnering majority support, that died on the vine. Until it's a rule, it's not a rule and any decisions made prior to to the new rule being officially implement (which quite clearly was after the trade was agreed upon on the 18th), should be subject to the rules that were in place at the time.
 
soco22 said:
That's not a compromise to Jays? He went from a top 5/8 protected pick to only a top 1 protected pick...and as I would have first rights to his pick which sits in the lotto at the moment...know that's not fair to him and in the spirit of the trade.
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What you traded for that pick was it with the understanding that it was top 5 protected or top 8?
 
The other thing of course, for anyone who reads the thread that I linked to, we didn't really make the decision to expand it for 2016 (there was a vote and a general agreement that it would be expanded, but agreed starting date or structure to the lottery), and we have a standing guideline that we typically use here, to not change any rules that effect that season.
 
Habspatrol said:
What you traded for that pick was it with the understanding that it was top 5 protected or top 8?
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Very sure top 8. But not 100% certain. jays might have the convo still. Hate that box doesn't have enough memory so can keep history of messaging.

But either way, definitely shouldn't be less than top 5. If it's compromising would be top 6 or 7 protected.
 
It's a tough one, as we knew that (a) the NHL was changing the way the lottery was run, and (b) we would almost certainly be doing the same. But the details were definitely not finalized. The trade simply states "lottery protected", so it could be argued that it should be top 8 lottery protected, since that's what we're doing with the lotto. But it could also be argued that the trade was made with "top 5" protection in mind, since that's the way it had been up to and including the day of the trade.
 
MindzEye said:
The other thing of course, for anyone who reads the thread that I linked to, we didn't really make the decision to expand it for 2016 (there was a vote and a general agreement that it would be expanded, but agreed starting date or structure to the lottery), and we have a standing guideline that we typically use here, to not change any rules that effect that season.
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Axl was given right to make changes and believe in that thread he said he wanted it for 2015, but didn't mind s discussion. I took that as 2015, as there was no further discussion.
 
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