• Moderators, please send me a PM if you are unable to access mod permissions. Thanks, Habsy.

2015 NHL Entry Draft

leafman101 said:
No but that is just it, Marner is the more complete player. Strome has the size advantage, and maybe the position advantage according to some, but Marner is the more complete well-rounded player.
Click to expand...

Marner is the more complete well rounded player according the the Toronto Star article you posted.

I will guarantee you that if you get 10 scouts, they'll split either 5/5 or 6/4 on which of the two is more "well rounded"
 
I just wish we had access to OHL advanced stats to definitively prove it, but I've seen enough of them to be very comfortable in saying that Marner is the more consistently impactful player without the puck. Its not really a debate for me.

Marner is a great player without the puck. Its one of the strengths of his game, and he is widely regarded as such.

And its not just a Toronto Star article, its quotes from the head of central scouting, and the head of north american scouting of central scouting.
 
Dan Marr's quote was good. No doubt. But you're acting like everything he said is definitive and scout's almost always speak in the speculative tense "After Connor, Mitch might be the most skilled player in the Draft"

And all Mark Seidel said was that "He has a chance to be a superstar" which no one has denied.

Neither of them stated, as you have been, that he's the most "well rounded" player in the draft.

And once again, that's two scouts. You get ten in a room, guarantee you come away with a split between the three players clustered between 3-5.
 
I didn't say any of those things. All I said is one of the strengths of Marner's game is his play without the puck, and he is highly regarded as such. Strome's play without the puck is not seen or talked about in the same way. IMO that makes Marner a more well rounded player than Strome. That isn't to say Strome stinks defensively. Just its one of Marners best qualities.

That is an important factor for me. Not for everyone. But for me it is. Just like how others think size is an important factor, where I do not particularly care about that.

I don't expect everyone to agree with me, nor do I care if they do. But IMO Marner is the better hockey player all around.
 
Last edited:
Just curious leafman; how much have you seen Marner play? You seem awfully sure that he's the best player we can pull out of this draft.
 
LeafGm said:
Just curious leafman; how much have you seen Marner play? You seem awfully sure that he's the best player we can pull out of this draft.
Click to expand...

Handful of games from all these guys. You can order past games online here for a few bucks: http://ohl.neulion.com/ohl/schedule?day=4/1/2015 Worth checking out regardless who you like/want the Leafs to draft, its easy to get views of these guys. All the CHL leagues do it I believe.

I get why Strome looks better on paper. I really do. But when I watch them play Marner is making an impact every shift, in every zone, with and without the puck.

Like I said, I just wish we had access to the advanced stats.
 
leafman101 said:
Handful of games from all these guys. You can order past games online here for a few bucks: http://ohl.neulion.com/ohl/schedule?day=4/1/2015 Worth checking out regardless who you like/want the Leafs to draft, its easy to get views of these guys. All the CHL leagues do it I believe.

I get why Strome looks better on paper. I really do. But when I watch them play Marner is making an impact every shift, in every zone, with and without the puck.

Like I said, I just wish we had access to the advanced stats.
Click to expand...
Thanks, that's a pretty cool service. I may take advantage of that leading up to the draft. I don't watch a whole lot of junior hockey besides the WJC, so all I've really got to go on is the stats. I haven't Strome or Marner actually play much at all.

The best way to sum up my preference is that I hope Strome is the better player, and will be available at our pick, since I really want that prototypical big #1 center. But if our guys have a choice between Marner and Strome and think Marner's the better player, I've got no issue with that either.
 
You always Obey Your Board.

Your scouts have put two-three years worth of evaluations into a player. When you make up your board, you're doing it with as much knowledge as you can.

If our scouts, after all that data have Marner ahead of Strome and Hanifin, then they should take him.

The perfect example was a couple years ago, Burkie said that they had Morgan Rielly rated as the best player in the whole draft. We might have thought is just bravado at the time but looking how that's played out, wouldn't shock me if the Leafs' Board had Rielly at #1 in retrospect.
 
Wayward DP said:
We all understand this. What you seem to fail to understand is that the higher the pick you have, the more likely you are to get the player you want. Period. The higher the pick, the better the outcome. It's hardly rocket science.
Click to expand...

Yes, the higher the pick I have, the better the chance that I get the player that I want.

Emphasis on the "I". Because I am not the Leafs, so they may not take the player that I want.

To mitigate the risk of their taking a Hanifin, I wanted the slots to be engineered such that they would not take him. And a Buff/Ari, Edmonton, Toronto order in all likelihood achieved that, so that's what I was hoping for, other than an outright lottery win.

If I was running the Leafs, I would surely want them to finish third or as high as possible. Because then if I get to choose, I'm either trading that pick down a slot to someone who wants to take Hanifin over Strome, get myself a free asset, and then take Strome, or I'm just taking Strome over Hanifin at 3rd.

Notice I had no issue with winning the lottery, of course, because it was 100% that we would take McDavid. Not so certain at 3rd, or now at 4th, which is exactly the situation I wanted to avoid coming to pass.
 
If it comes down to Marner vs. Strome, I am not worried because Dubas and HUnter, from their junior experience, and in particular Hunter's personal experience with them. They would know both of these kids very well. There's no wrong choice between the 2, and I can safely trust their judgment.

Hanifin is a slightly different story.
 
You have to figure they've done their homework on Hanifin too.

It was pretty apparent for at least the last two months of the season that there was a very good chance we'd be picking in the top-5.
 
I trust their judgment because they both built two of the top organizations in the CHL, and Dubas' team is currently beating McDavid in the OHL final. The only way you can do that is by evaluating and projecting young players effectively.

Also I trust their judgment, because they are smart enough to not trust their judgment and rely on the numbers.
 
LeafGm said:
You have to figure they've done their homework on Hanifin too.

It was pretty apparent for at least the last two months of the season that there was a very good chance we'd be picking in the top-5.
Click to expand...
I don't mean the Leafs haven't scouted Hanifin enough.

I just meant Hunter and Dubas wouldn't know Hanifin as well as Strome and Marner on a personal level.
 
I slightly favor Strome over Marner, and really only because of the size factor.

But I wouldn't be the slightest bit upset if they chose Marner over Strome, or if Arizona took Strome and we took Marner.
 
I think that if Strome is gone with the #3 witch I believe he will the leafs should then take Hanifin. I would then trade for a big centre prospect (Draisaitl ). Witch edm may be willing to move for d help. A package starting with Phaneuf or Gardiner may interest them maybe adding our late 1st or 2nd next year. Marner and Nylander I think would be to small up the middle for a 1/2 punch
 
leafman101 said:
I just wish we had access to OHL advanced stats to definitively prove it, but I've seen enough of them to be very comfortable in saying that Marner is the more consistently impactful player without the puck. Its not really a debate for me.

Marner is a great player without the puck. Its one of the strengths of his game, and he is widely regarded as such.

And its not just a Toronto Star article, its quotes from the head of central scouting, and the head of north american scouting of central scouting.
Click to expand...
Ohl doesnt have access to ohl advanced stats. They dont have the people on the rink recording everything the nhl does to get these stats.

You need exact moment of each line change and exact moment of each shot attempt and position on the ice of each shot attempt... time everytime the puck crosses the blue line....
 
leafman101 will enjoy this quote from Kyle Dubas (which I read in Elliott Friedman's latest "30 thoughts" article). When asked if the Leafs would consider passing on Mitch Marner, because they've already got smallish forwards like Nazem Kadri, Connor Brown & William Nylander, this is what he had to say:

"Here's the way I look at it. Right now, we aren't good enough to be picky about smaller players. We need as many elite players as we can. If we get into the playoffs and are too small, or overwhelmed, it's easier to trade small for size than draft for size and trade for skill."
--Kyle Dubas
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top