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2015 NHL Entry Draft

Wayward DP said:
ten = maybe two or three.

and, for the record, I didn't even mean the 3rd spot (Edmonton's) going into the lottery, I meant finishing the lottery with the 3rd overall pick (Zona) vs 4th overall (us). because in either case, it would have been better to a) have a better chance at winning the lottery; or b) have a higher draft pick. because then y'know, you have a greater chance of drafting the guy you want. which, I guess your post begrudgingly concedes.

and, this has nothing to do with hindsight. finishing with a better draft pick (or lottery odds) being better than finishing with a worse draft pick was exactly foreseen by people like me and many, many others. (and just in case you try and do something dumb with this, I'm not arguing I foresaw Edmonton winning the lottery. just that, like everyone maintained, it wasn't better to finish 4th vs 3rd. which should have been obvious. hopefully now, it is
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It doesn't change anything. My whole point was results-based. I want to end up with Strome or Marner.

If Buffalo or Arizona won the lottery, I wanted to be exactly where we are. Different story than if Edmonton won, which no one could've predicted and which changes everything.
 
The point is that it doesn't make any sense to want to finish lower in the draft, on any level. That's what people have been trying to tell you.
 
I change my mind everyday dammit.

Now i start thinking of the benefits Hanifin would provide to this team. Having Rielly and Hanifin anchoring 2 pairings would be quite the pleasure to watch.

Rielly - XXXX
Hanifin - XXXX

Hell, Hanifin is likely a better prospect than Rielly.
 
Volcanologist said:
The point is that it doesn't make any sense to want to finish lower in the draft, on any level. That's what people have been trying to tell you.
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What everyone doesn't want to understand is that I just want to end up with us taking one of the prime forwards, now being Strome or McDavid.

When Edmonton seemed likely to stay third, I wanted fourth.

Now that Edmonton won the lottery, I would prefer third seeing as to how Arizona might take Strome. But shit, if Arizona takes Hanifin, I want to stay exactly where we are.

It's the outcome that matters to me, not where we happen to sit.
 
Leafin' said:
Not sure if its against board etiquette or not but this poster from HFBoard has put together some of the best amateur scouting reports i've seen on the internet. Excellent read on the 2015 draft.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1819069

If this is against forum rules my apologies just thought info such as this should be shared. Delete my post if this is against policy.
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Not sure how much stock can be put into comments made by a former agent and strength coach of a 17 year old. And seeing as this is "former" i would guess that it was before he was 17, making it even more absurd. I'm not saying i don't believe they said it or that they believe it. I just think that saying these kinds of things about a kid so young is really knit-picking.

Is there a reason they are former and not presently in those positions? Dale Hunter has raved about Marners work ethic on and off the ice. Than again an argument could be made for the coach having some bias in his comments.
 
Leafin' said:
Not sure how much stock can be put into comments made by a former agent and strength coach of a 17 year old. And seeing as this is "former" i would guess that it was before he was 17, making it even more absurd. I'm not saying i don't believe they said it or that they believe it. I just think that saying these kinds of things about a kid so young is really knit-picking.

Is there a reason they are former and not presently in those positions? Dale Hunter has raved about Marners work ethic on and off the ice. Than again an argument could be made for the coach having some bias in his comments.
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Let me preface this properly. I am a fan of Marner and have had some great convos about him. Plus, I think the kid is a stud so I would be happy if we picked him. However, it's important to know the downside and this is something that has come up in conversations.

As for the "former" side of things, player representation at all levels in sports is a pretty interesting business. Marner was repped by one guy from 14-17 and prior to this year, made a change due to some factors that aren't exactly important to discuss. Hockey and politics and all that. However, his former agent had nothing but good things to say about Marner, even saying he should go ahead of Strome.

In terms of strength/conditioning, Marner has been to a few places in his development. So this was from not one, but two of the locations he "trained" at. Sure, some guys need to figure it out, but it's great when a player doesn't have to and just is into that side of the work too.
 
Leafin' said:
Does Hanifin play right away on the Leafs or does he stay in college? If he stays, how many years?
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From his interviews, it sounds like he's planning to go pro. So if the Leafs drafted him, I imagine they'd start him with the Marlies next year.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
What everyone doesn't want to understand is that I just want to end up with us taking one of the prime forwards, now being Strome or McDavid.

When Edmonton seemed likely to stay third, I wanted fourth.

Now that Edmonton won the lottery, I would prefer third seeing as to how Arizona might take Strome. But shit, if Arizona takes Hanifin, I want to stay exactly where we are.

It's the outcome that matters to me, not where we happen to sit.
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We all understand this. What you seem to fail to understand is that the higher the pick you have, the more likely you are to get the player you want. Period. The higher the pick, the better the outcome. It's hardly rocket science.
 
I think we can't think of it as "what does this team need the most." That is when mistakes are made and how you end up with guys like Gauthier. The only question should be if you were starting a team from scratch, and had no other players, which one of these guys do you think will be the best player. And you have to take that guy. Maybe that is Strome or Marner, but if its not you can't take them.

If position factors in you are doing a disservice to the organization.
 
leafman101 said:
Similar skill set to Duchene, just probably even more talented. He put up one of the top 10, 17 year old seasons in OHL history while Duchene put up 79 points in 57 games.

Also, Marner started the year off slow. Including the playoffs over his last 63 games he put up a 2.28 ppg. McDavid was around 2.5 ppg, and Strome 1.9 ppg. The only 17 year olds to put up numbers better than that in the OHL in the last 30 years are Lindros and McDavid.

He has very, very high end talent.
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I don't think the belief is Marner is not elite ... the counter-thought is Marner is good, but Strome is even better as a complete player. Though less skilled, Strome could put up points just as effective as Marner.

My biggest concern about Strome is how much was his production inflated by the presence of McDavid on the same team. Even though the 2 of them don't play on the same line, McDavid already drew the top D pairing and Strome had an easier time, where as Marner had to face the top D shift after shift.
 
I'm pretty confident that Strome averaged close to 2 PPG when McDavid was injured/at the World Juniors. We should not be worried at all about his level of offensive production minus the McDavid effect.
 
JaysCyYoung said:
I'm pretty confident that Strome averaged close to 2 PPG when McDavid was injured/at the World Juniors. We should not be worried at all about his level of offensive production minus the McDavid effect.
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Not quite, but still pretty damn elite for a 17 year old. Dylan Strome without McDavid in the lineup this year:

GP 21, G 18, A 17, Pts 35, PPG 1.66 (GP 82, G 70, A 66, Pts 136)
 
number17 said:
I don't think the belief is Marner is not elite ... the counter-thought is Marner is good, but Strome is even better as a complete player. Though less skilled, Strome could put up points just as effective as Marner.
.
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No but that is just it, Marner is the more complete player. Strome has the size advantage, and maybe the position advantage according to some, but Marner is the more complete well-rounded player.
 
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