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Rumours, Innuendos and Flat out B.S.: 2021-22 Edition

Re: Rumours, Innuendos and Flat out B.S.: 2016-17 Edition

Habspatrol said:
The Carter deal only looks so good cause CBJ overpaid PLUS Vorachek because really good.

Good luck finding a GM that dumb and then be fortunate enough that the players you get exceed expectations on top of that.

The Richards trade turned out great for Philly too.
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Those two trades have two possible ways of being looked at.

If you look at the trades at face value, they were awesome for Philly.

However, when you look at the end results since those trades, Philly has been spinning their wheels. They were a team that had a legitimate chance of winning a Cup and they traded away two of their three best forwards away for future assets and they've been middling ever since. Because of that, I'm not a fan of those trades for them.
 
Re: Rumours, Innuendos and Flat out B.S.: 2016-17 Edition

GGpX said:
Those two trades have two possible ways of being looked at.

If you look at the trades at face value, they were awesome for Philly.

However, when you look at the end results since those trades, Philly has been spinning their wheels. They were a team that had a legitimate chance of winning a Cup and they traded away two of their three best forwards away for future assets and they've been middling ever since. Because of that, I'm not a fan of those trades for them.
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That has a lot to do with the fact that they used that cap space to sign Bryzgalov, and that Pronger (to whom they shifted the leadership toward) got a season ending injury. I think they would have been in a even worse shape without those trades.
 
Re: Rumours, Innuendos and Flat out B.S.: 2017-18 Edition

time to change this thread to 2017-18 season....

Or maybe call it the ''Nero is getting Tavares'' thread
 
Re: Rumours, Innuendos and Flat out B.S.: 2016-17 Edition

GrandWazoo said:
That has a lot to do with the fact that they used that cap space to sign Bryzgalov, and that Pronger (to whom they shifted the leadership toward) got a season ending injury. I think they would have been in a even worse shape without those trades.
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Precisely my point.

They got rid of two of their three best forwards and weren't able to replace them. The money they did save on those two was spent poorly. Building a team around a 36 year old d-man (hindsight being 20-20) wasn't the best of ideas either.

That trade directly led to the downfall of one of the top teams in the Eastern conference and they haven't recovered. They've played 24 total playoff games since they were traded. For a team that was on the cusp of winning at the time of the trade, that's an utter failiure. You had Giroux about to enter his prime, Pronger still playing good hockey, Hartnell was still an awesome power forward...

So yeah, they got awesome returns for both of those players, for all the good that's done the team.

The further dismantling of the team continued with JVR for Luke Schenn, trading away Bobrovsky, poor drafting from 2007 to 2013.
 
Re: Rumours, Innuendos and Flat out B.S.: 2017-18 Edition

Yeah they've made a bunch of bad moves that contributed to their downfall, those two trades in vacuum were not, but they were part of a whole that knock them out of contending position.
 
Re: Rumours, Innuendos and Flat out B.S.: 2016-17 Edition

GGpX said:
Those two trades have two possible ways of being looked at.

If you look at the trades at face value, they were awesome for Philly.

However, when you look at the end results since those trades, Philly has been spinning their wheels. They were a team that had a legitimate chance of winning a Cup and they traded away two of their three best forwards away for future assets and they've been middling ever since. Because of that, I'm not a fan of those trades for them.
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We have spinning our wheels for years with no shot at a cup right now , so the timing is perfect for a Philly type return .

Worst thing to do is pay the premium at 31 years of age and still win nothing .
 
Re: Rumours, Innuendos and Flat out B.S.: 2017-18 Edition

GrandWazoo said:
Yeah they've made a bunch of bad moves that contributed to their downfall, those two trades in vacuum were not, but they were part of a whole that knock them out of contending position.
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This is an argument I've made for years here for those who wanted to get rid of Pleks/Markov while they were still in their primes or near it.

Okay, you want to get rid of them, I understand. Who, exactly, do you plan on replacing them with? Just like replacing a top line winger & a top-line (or second line at that point in Mike Richards's career) center, finding those players is very difficult and unless you have a ready-made replacement on hand already, you're basically slitting your wrist if you get rid of them.
 
Re: Rumours, Innuendos and Flat out B.S.: 2017-18 Edition

Another in an historically long line of assets lost for nothing, not even a pick.
 
Re: Rumours, Innuendos and Flat out B.S.: 2017-18 Edition

GGpX said:
This is an argument I've made for years here for those who wanted to get rid of Pleks/Markov while they were still in their primes or near it.

Okay, you want to get rid of them, I understand. Who, exactly, do you plan on replacing them with? Just like replacing a top line winger & a top-line (or second line at that point in Mike Richards's career) center, finding those players is very difficult and unless you have a ready-made replacement on hand already, you're basically slitting your wrist if you get rid of them.
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I guess the answer is you don't. You take the bump now in hope of a better future in a few years. Obviously, I don't think you make those trades if you're in a contending position and you need those players to win the Cup, but if those players are not difference maker or your optics for the next few years are not that solid, then it's something to consider.
 
Re: Rumours, Innuendos and Flat out B.S.: 2017-18 Edition

GrandWazoo said:
I guess the answer is you don't. You take the bump now in hope of a better future in a few years. Obviously, I don't think you make those trades if you're in a contending position and you need those players to win the Cup, but if those players are not difference maker or your optics for the next few years are not that solid, then it's something to consider.
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Its all based on where you think your team is heading and or timing to get the most out of your assets . I think Philly decided it was time to retool and dump very long term contracts and they got outstanding value .

They clearly fooked up later using their cap space but I think those 2 were no longer in their long term plans .

Same as my example with the Rangers , they went as far as they could go with this core and dumped their top 2 centers for youth while the return was good .

Swapping Brassard and gaining 6 years in MZ is a trade I would do any day of the week . Point is they decided to retool , they werent netting these returns a year later.

With our captain you have a divided group of keeping him and dealing with his contract later on or moving on for that solid deal before he turns 31 looking for mega bucks .
 
Re: Rumours, Innuendos and Flat out B.S.: 2017-18 Edition

I heard a rumor that there is no rumors and we sit with a ton of cap space. Oddest off season in a while.
 
Re: Rumours, Innuendos and Flat out B.S.: 2017-18 Edition

GGpX said:
This is an argument I've made for years here for those who wanted to get rid of Pleks/Markov while they were still in their primes or near it.

Okay, you want to get rid of them, I understand. Who, exactly, do you plan on replacing them with? Just like replacing a top line winger & a top-line (or second line at that point in Mike Richards's career) center, finding those players is very difficult and unless you have a ready-made replacement on hand already, you're basically slitting your wrist if you get rid of them.
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Good teams have good farms with good players ready to replace players traded away.

Habs can't develop players to save their lives and thus are not a good team.
 
Re: Rumours, Innuendos and Flat out B.S.: 2017-18 Edition

Altair said:
Good teams have good farms with good players ready to replace players traded away.

Habs can't develop players to save their lives and thus are not a good team.
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Exactly, when you have no farm system you never develop the depth to effectively make a trade .

Drouin is solid but cost us a key D young piece that we dont have and desperately need for our aging back end .
 
Re: Rumours, Innuendos and Flat out B.S.: 2017-18 Edition

GEEMAN said:
Exactly, when you have no farm system you never develop the depth to effectively make a trade .

Drouin is solid but cost us a key D young piece that we dont have and desperately need for our aging back end .
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It's nothing we didn't already know.

To fill one hole they would need to create another.
 
Re: Rumours, Innuendos and Flat out B.S.: 2017-18 Edition

In five years, our prospects are no better. Bergevin isn't doing what he promised.
 
Re: Rumours, Innuendos and Flat out B.S.: 2017-18 Edition

TheCountofMonteCristo said:
In five years, our prospects are no better. Bergevin isn't doing what he promised.
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And he still has a job.

At some point it's no longer on him.

If you have a incompetent employee working for you, who isn't delivering results, and you keep him around, at some point you need to own it.
 
Re: Rumours, Innuendos and Flat out B.S.: 2017-18 Edition

CaptainBolduke said:
Everything went off the rails for this version of the Habs when they traded Subban.
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ya, pretty much. turned into a win now club but then failed to get the pieces required to win now. so its more a middling now club
 
Re: Rumours, Innuendos and Flat out B.S.: 2017-18 Edition

TheCountofMonteCristo said:
In five years, our prospects are no better. Bergevin isn't doing what he promised.
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We have no prospects right now, it's actually worse than when he took over. NB/LL/JT/BG. We had some guys in the system, not top line guys, but guys who were supposed to be developed into decent players (or not now that we look back lol). Then we had guys who were supposed to have some upside but were a bit riskier (Bournival/AP/Kristo). Either way, they were projected to be. Now, we legitimately could have the worst farm in the entire NHL.
 
Re: Rumours, Innuendos and Flat out B.S.: 2017-18 Edition

Altair said:
ya, pretty much. turned into a win now club but then failed to get the pieces required to win now. so its more a middling now club
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This team was nothing more than a middling team , PK trade or no trade . The end result was a first or second round exit and NO SHOT as a contender .

We simply never had the roster depth and asset prospect pool available to make quality deals without creating a hole somewhere else .

With free agents mainly shunning us and players not waiving their trade clauses to join us , we were and have been challenged for years to make roster improvements.

Our demise has been the putrid draft and development team since 2008 and the gross FKCUP in the generational draft of 2003 and miscues in 2006 and other misses .

There is no way we can pin our situation on the PK deal , we traded a 1D for a 1D .

We had 2 options , go young and reboot like the Rangers did in the Stepan/Brassard deals . Or change a core player they didnt want for a different player .

We all know the clock was ticking resigning Jesus and then the non producing metrosexual .

Any direction you take is the same ......we are a middling club missing pieces and not contending.
 
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