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Thread: Tank Nation Redux 2018

  1. #2481
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    Default Re: Tank Nation Redux 2018

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCountofMonteCristo View Post
    Surely you aren't going to claim if a player is say -35 it is meaningless as to how a player has been at even strength.
    on a truly shit team that stat is useless

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    ADMINuteman Habspatrol's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tank Nation Redux 2018

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCountofMonteCristo View Post
    Surely you aren't going to claim if a player is say -35 it is meaningless as to how a player has been at even strength.
    With enough context it can tell you part of a story.
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  3. #2483
    Canadiens & 'News & Views' Moderator TheCountofMonteCristo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tank Nation Redux 2018

    Quote Originally Posted by Habspatrol View Post
    With enough context it can tell you part of a story.
    Fyi how this debate generated from a comment I read that Jeff Petry has been outstanding 5 on 5 this year. I queried how is that possible if he is -23
    "The next game is the test unless we win" CanadienFan

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  4. #2484
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    Default Re: Tank Nation Redux 2018

    Quote Originally Posted by Habspatrol View Post
    With enough context it can tell you part of a story.
    OEL is a -41 on a brutal team . Put him in Pittsburgh those numbers will improve dramatically .

    Team analytics are more important than singular numbers . They can tell much more about your flaws or skewed numbers to make an analysis .

    If 31 was even barely average some nights those +- numbers would look better .

  5. #2485
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    Default Re: Tank Nation Redux 2018

    This is why this stat is not reliable. Too many factors.

    IMO Drouin and Galchenyuk aren't shitty players. Galchenyuk was always fine with this stat until his year.

    Drouin struggled in this category last year, but we still decided that head a worth a 6 year deal.

  6. #2486
    Canadiens & 'News & Views' Moderator TheCountofMonteCristo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tank Nation Redux 2018

    As usual Bolduke does not understand nuance. Being a big - does not make one a shitty player to use his word but it might mean you were bad 5 on 5i one season
    "The next game is the test unless we win" CanadienFan

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  7. #2487
    Legend wiseguy1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tank Nation Redux 2018

    Our hero Plekanec has the final word on this.

    https://hockey30.com/nouvelles/tomas...than-drouin-27

    AYOYE..

    - Tomas Plekanec (+3) se permet de viser Alex Galchenyuk (-28) et Jonathan Drouin (-27).

    Tu ne peux pas contrôler certains facteurs, comme les buts dans un filet désert ou les mauvais changements de trios qui te donnent un moins sans être fautifs sur un but. Il y a toutefois des signes. Quand il y a un gros écart entre les joueurs au sein d’une même équipe, ça donne une bonne illustration à savoir si tu fais les sacrifices nécessaires pour respecter le jeu d’équipe et le système.

    - OUCH...

  8. #2488
    Legend GrandWazoo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tank Nation Redux 2018

    He's right, I'm old school but I know how to interpret +/- within the context of a team. The discrepancy between Plekanec and the other two is quite telling, especially given that Plekanec usually draw the defensive assignments.

  9. #2489
    Canadiens Moderator DonKay's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tank Nation Redux 2018

    +/- like many other analytical stats tells part of the story regarding a player because hockey is a team sport in the end and you can’t control what the other 5 guys on the ice are doing but when you are -20 or so don’t try and convince me that you are not responsible for a portion of that stat.
    Go Habs Go!

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    ADMINuteman Habspatrol's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tank Nation Redux 2018

    Quote Originally Posted by DonKay View Post
    +/- like many other analytical stats tells part of the story regarding a player because hockey is a team sport in the end and you can’t control what the other 5 guys on the ice are doing but when you are -20 or so don’t try and convince me that you are not responsible for a portion of that stat.
    Sure... but you can be the reason that it's not -30. Or the reason it's not only -10. Hence, the number is meaningless.

  11. #2491
    Canadiens Moderator DonKay's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tank Nation Redux 2018

    Quote Originally Posted by Habspatrol View Post
    Sure... but you can be the reason that it's not -30. Or the reason it's not only -10. Hence, the number is meaningless.
    -30 or -10 are both bad....either way it simply tells me you are on the ice for quite a bit of goals against.

    I understand what you mean however but most analytic stats can also have the same variables you are mentioning
    Go Habs Go!

  12. #2492
    Legend Altair's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tank Nation Redux 2018

    NHL

    1.TBL 118
    2.VGK 115
    3.BOS 115
    4.NSH 114
    5.WPG 109
    6 WSH 105
    7.DAL 103
    8.STL 102
    9.TOR 102
    10.MIN 98
    11.SJS 98
    12.LAK 97
    13.CGY 95
    14.COL 94
    15.NJD 94
    16.PHI 94
    17.PIT 94
    18.ANA 94
    19.CBJ 90
    20.CAR 89
    21.NYI 88
    22.NYR 85
    23.CHI 84
    24.FLA 82
    25.DET 79
    26. MTL 76
    27.EDM 76
    28.VAN 72
    29.OTT 71
    30.BUF 63
    31.ARZ 54

    So we are drafting 1-3 or 6-9 as of right now.

    Great time to be picking up points, lets draft 10th. Or higher.
    No one loves the warrior until the enemy is at the gate.

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  13. #2493
    Legend Altair's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tank Nation Redux 2018

    connor mcdavid to the rescue tonight
    No one loves the warrior until the enemy is at the gate.

    Quote Originally Posted by zeke View Post
    An idiot grunt like habitants should be enraged.

  14. #2494
    Legend Altair's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tank Nation Redux 2018

    A good loss tonight.
    No one loves the warrior until the enemy is at the gate.

    Quote Originally Posted by zeke View Post
    An idiot grunt like habitants should be enraged.

  15. #2495
    Legend wiseguy1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tank Nation Redux 2018

    Quote Originally Posted by Altair View Post
    A good loss tonight.
    But they got a point.

  16. #2496
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    Default Re: Tank Nation Redux 2018

    Quote Originally Posted by wiseguy1 View Post
    But they got a point.
    They could have gotten two.
    No one loves the warrior until the enemy is at the gate.

    Quote Originally Posted by zeke View Post
    An idiot grunt like habitants should be enraged.

  17. #2497
    Legend lecoqsportif's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tank Nation Redux 2018

    Yah, and now they have to count on Ottawa to win. Not good.

  18. #2498
    Legend Altair's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tank Nation Redux 2018

    Fear not. When the going gets tough, and the Habs are in danger of winning, they dig deep and find a way to lose.

    A mark a of shit team. I have faith.
    No one loves the warrior until the enemy is at the gate.

    Quote Originally Posted by zeke View Post
    An idiot grunt like habitants should be enraged.

  19. #2499
    Canadiens Moderator Rolex's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tank Nation Redux 2018

    I actually expect them to start winning once the trade deadline passes, and especially once they are mathematically out of playoffs
    "Love one another as I have loved you"... Jesus-Christ our Holy Lord and Savior Forever Amen and Alleluia !!!

  20. #2500
    LeAdminie legoalie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tank Nation Redux 2018

    Quote Originally Posted by DonKay View Post
    -30 or -10 are both bad....either way it simply tells me you are on the ice for quite a bit of goals against.

    I understand what you mean however but most analytic stats can also have the same variables you are mentioning
    plus/minus is still used today by every coach in the NHL along with the players so it isn't useless; you use the stat to gauge lines and d-pairings, not individual performances; ie 27 line was plus -2 or plek line was plus 2; so when used right its a great tool, when used as an individual stat it misses.

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