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Thread: The Expansion Draft

  1. #161
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    Default Re: The Expansion Draft

    Tucker was a really good player though. Dotchin is a 23 year old that hasn't proven himself as an NHLer. He's more Matt Cooke than Tucker. And really, not even that.

    I wouldn't be the one to give a guy like that a job in the NHL.

  2. #162
    resurrected BeLeafer's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Expansion Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by leafman101 View Post
    **** that guy.
    X 100

    Don't want a dirtbag like that anywhere near this team.

  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeafGm View Post
    On another note---we've talked about exposed players like Sami Vatanen, Matt Dumba, Jason Demers & Josh Manson as potential RHD options for the Leafs.

    On guy I don't think we've mentioned yet: Jake Dotchin, who's on Tampa Bay's unprotected list. He's a RHD who's 6'3", 212lbs, just turned 23, and he was Victor Hedman's regular defense partner for the final 35 games of Tampa's regular season when they went on their big run. I'm not sure how much the fact that he was paired with Hedman takes away from his performance, but these were his numbers:





    He's also the POS that broke Kapanen's ankle & injured Freddie Gauthier with late hits in the AHL, and who took a run at Matthews' knee in a game late in the season against against the Leafs, so he clearly plays with an edge, to say the least. Any thoughts about the idea of swinging a deal with Vegas to make him our POS?

    And any thoughts about the value of the numbers he put up in a limited sample size (35 games) in his first taste of NHL action, while paired with one of the best defensemen in the NHL?
    just a note - all the analytics guys on Twitter have been doing all sorts of soul searching recently when it comes to quality of competition. it's only a matter of time when charts like this that ignore it are history.
    #TeamReimer

  4. #164
    Legend hockeylover's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Expansion Draft

    Scott Cullen from TSN saying Vegas has at least 7 side deals right now.

  5. #165
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    Default Re: The Expansion Draft

    So what are the true numbers for Dumba. He seems to be the bell of the ball for this expansion but looking at his chart numbers and it shows a 3rd pairing guy who can score a bunch

  6. #166
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    Default Re: The Expansion Draft

    Dumba 2016-17 (Rank on Wild)
    GF/60 - 2.98 (1st)
    GA/60 - 2.27 (4th)
    GF% rel - 0.76 (3rd)
    CF/60 - 51.97 (6th)
    CA/60 - 55.47 (4th)
    CF% rel - -1.80 (5th)
    iCorsi/60- 8.90 (2nd)
    G/60 - 0.18 (3rd)
    PP/60 - 0.43 (3rd)
    Opp GF% - 49.58 (4th)
    Opp Sh% - 7.64 (4th)


    Basically played non-sheltered, 2nd pair minutes and was pretty good across the board except for CF/60. Which is kinda the opposite of what you would expect, especially considering how many individual corsi attempts he created.

    Corsica is down for the summer, so pickings are slim.

  7. #167
    Legend zeke's Avatar
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    tbh i've never really been a fan. his last name is descriptive of his playing style.
    #TeamReimer

  8. #168
    Legend LeafGm's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Expansion Draft

    Some expansion news---McPhee's sent out a memo to the rest of the league letting them know that today is the last day to make any side deals.

    After that, Vegas's front office will be dedicating tomorrow to selecting their team.


    Quote Originally Posted by zeke View Post
    just a note - all the analytics guys on Twitter have been doing all sorts of soul searching recently when it comes to quality of competition. it's only a matter of time when charts like this that ignore it are history.
    He was paired almost exclusively with Hedman at five-on-five, so presumably he was facing pretty decent levels of competition.

    Are there any numbers being worked on for a case like this---when you need to separate the quality of play of a guy who's running out there all the time with an elite partner?
    Ill trade five ordinary players for one great player any day. You can always find ordinary players. - Conn Smythe

  9. #169
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    Default Re: The Expansion Draft

    CF with Dotchin - 54.12
    CF w/o Dotchin - 53.06
    SF with Dotchin - 49.31
    SF w/o Dotchin - 51.52
    GF with Dotchin - 51.73
    GF w/o Dotchin - 53.09
    SC with Dotchin - 52.71
    SC w/o Dotchin - 53.78
    HDSC with Dotchin - 49.34
    HDSC w/o Dotchin - 50.17
    TOI with Dotchin - 465.58
    TOI w/o Dotchin - 945:52

    Hedman was measurably less effective with Dotchin than without him.

  10. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeke View Post
    tbh i've never really been a fan. his last name is descriptive of his playing style.
    But it's not just about what we think of Dumba, it's the fact if MIN throws Dumba's name on the trade market he'll at the very least lands a mid-1st rounder for him. If they expose Dumba without a side-deal for LV, then that's just ... dumb.

  11. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by leafman101 View Post
    CF with Dotchin - 54.12
    CF w/o Dotchin - 53.06
    SF with Dotchin - 49.31
    SF w/o Dotchin - 51.52
    GF with Dotchin - 51.73
    GF w/o Dotchin - 53.09
    SC with Dotchin - 52.71
    SC w/o Dotchin - 53.78
    HDSC with Dotchin - 49.34
    HDSC w/o Dotchin - 50.17
    TOI with Dotchin - 465.58
    TOI w/o Dotchin - 945:52

    Hedman was measurably less effective with Dotchin than without him.
    Excellent. Thanks for the info.
    Ill trade five ordinary players for one great player any day. You can always find ordinary players. - Conn Smythe

  12. #172
    Legend BG's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Expansion Draft

    Having a good look at the available talent, maybe half the league would do well to negotiate with Vegas regarding who to pick, and a half dozen that absolutely need to cut a deal in order to preserve their roster.

    If the rumour of 7 side deals is true, then likely the teams with the most to lose have already paid up.
    BG

    "Holy snapping eyeballs!"

  13. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by BG View Post
    Having a good look at the available talent, maybe half the league would do well to negotiate with Vegas regarding who to pick, and a half dozen that absolutely need to cut a deal in order to preserve their roster.

    If the rumour of 7 side deals is true, then likely the teams with the most to lose have already paid up.
    Possible (and in fact, most likely) ... cause if MIN let Dumba go for nothing the GM deserves to be fired.

    So I guess many lists on the 'available' list are not truly available.

  14. #174
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    Default Re: The Expansion Draft

    MIN either gives up Dumba - or the trade equivalent. Either way, the GM/team is being punished for having too many NHL ready assets.

    These side deals sound like a great way to keep your roster intact - but you are going to see a bucketload of quality prospect and picks thrown away because GMs want to keep their 'known assets'.

    The side deals will be judged in a year or two, and a good number of them will shine badly on the GMs IMO.

    Expansion is what it is, it was designed to punish those teams with excessive depth.
    BG

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  15. #175
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    Default Re: The Expansion Draft

    If Minnesota ends up striking a deal, the other guy I'd try to get from Vegas is Colin Miller.

  16. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by BG View Post
    MIN either gives up Dumba - or the trade equivalent. Either way, the GM/team is being punished for having too many NHL ready assets.

    These side deals sound like a great way to keep your roster intact - but you are going to see a bucketload of quality prospect and picks thrown away because GMs want to keep their 'known assets'.

    The side deals will be judged in a year or two, and a good number of them will shine badly on the GMs IMO.

    Expansion is what it is, it was designed to punish those teams with excessive depth.
    Yes. Still, I'm surprised not more GM's have traded with teams other than LV to recuperate assets for players they think they would lose to LV.

    I mean, as an example, for MIN to keep LV's hands off Dumba, they are going to have to give up significant asset in a 'side deal'. I mean, McPhee is not going to leave Dumba alone, handshake or not, if MIN only give them say, a 2nd rounder or a B prospect. It's gotta be a significant asset (and we'll find out on Wed).

    And I wonder if MIN has talked to other teams to see what they can get from them for Dumba. It may end up being a better deal than what it takes for them to 'protect' Dumba.

  17. #177
    Legend zeke's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Expansion Draft

    yeah i would think most teams would have neutral value contracts they should be fine with losing instead of giving up picks.
    #TeamReimer

  18. #178
    Legend LeafGm's Avatar
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    I doubt Minnesota's made a side deal to get Vegas to lay off of anyone. Not unless they've thrown a top prospect like Greenway, Eriksson-Ek or Kaprizov into the mix.

    If they're not willing to do that, then they're already traded away too many of their high draft picks to make it worth Vegas's while to lay off Dumba, Scandella or Staal. Even if Vegas doesn't want any of those guys for themselves, one of the other 29 NHL teams will make a healthy offer to pluck one of them away from Minnesota.
    Ill trade five ordinary players for one great player any day. You can always find ordinary players. - Conn Smythe

  19. #179
    Legend BG's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Expansion Draft

    Looking at MIN protection list, it looks like MIN was willing to sacrifice Dumba/Scandella in order to shield Staal from selection.
    BG

    "Holy snapping eyeballs!"

  20. #180
    Wrong Thinker Extraordinaire Habsy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BG View Post
    Yep, UFA is going to be a tough sell for Vegas, but it could be a great opportunity for players to get ice-time if they are playing toward a big contract.
    I'd imagine it'd attract guys in their final years too though. Not that McPhee wants those players.
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