2017-18 Canes Prospect and Cherkers Thread

HurryCanes said:

I don't have a problem with Staal staying. Paid too much, yes (that's on mgmt). But the guy shows up every night and is one of the best defensive centers around IMHO. Build a friggin offense on this team and the narrative will change about Staal. The rest of that crowd, adios!

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I agree on J. Staal...he is one of the few here right now that at least puts his work boots on and is willing to consistently show up and play 60 minutes.

Faulk is the poster boy for the season of hell for me...from the moment they gave him that dumb shared C it has been a train wreck. I use to coach 12 year olds in youth hockey that made better decisions in their own end with the puck than Justin Faulk. If I had to hand Dundon My Top 5 ticket out of town list it would be Faulk, Rask, Peters, Darling and Ryan...with another 5 waiting in the wings!

I also have no issues with Jordan Staal. He gives you what he's got to give every night and I was highly impressed with how hard he worked even with all he had going on in his personal life for much of this season. He may not be a Captain, but he's a keeper.

Re: Staal. If he does stay, they need to take that C away. He's just not a leader. 3rd line checking center, fine; but let's not over slot his talents.

Is there a chance that the shared C was because of the Jordan's personal situation? That perhaps they wanted him to have the C and he said he didn't know what would be happening and wasn't comfortable with it?

I'd be OK with him having the C, or an A - I think he is a leader, and he shows up every night and he sticks around to answer the questions that have no good answers.

Overall, I've been very impressed with Staal, Lindholm, Aho, Tuevo... I think that's it.

cmon3 said:

Is there a chance that the shared C was because of the Jordan's personal situation? That perhaps they wanted him to have the C and he said he didn't know what would be happening and wasn't comfortable with it?

I'd be OK with him having the C, or an A - I think he is a leader, and he shows up every night and he sticks around to answer the questions that have no good answers.

Overall, I've been very impressed with Staal, Lindholm, Aho, Tuevo... I think that's it.

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Slavin and Pesce haven't been half bad when you consider the situation they've been put in as still relatively young players. And honestly, McGinn has had a solid year. He's limited but he gives you what he's got. And I think we'd all agree that Cam Ward has out-performed his contract and expected role. That shouldn't get lost in the flood of disgruntlement with his partner in goal.

McGinn would make a solid anchor on a 4th line of a 4 line team. Unfortunately, this isn't that team.

I wouldn't call Ryan a loser. It isn't his fault Peters thinks he's better than he is. Faulk and Rask - yeah, the sooner, the better.

HNIM said:

I wouldn't call Ryan a loser. It isn't his fault Peters thinks he's better than he is. Faulk and Rask - yeah, the sooner, the better.

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I think Derek Ryan is a perfectly acceptable 4th line center. He wins faceoffs, he can kill penalties, etc. But in the grand tradition of so many before him, he's overslotted. And trading for Kruger guaranteed it.

Agreed and Ryan ain't the problem (being over-slotted is on BP) he lives up to his fairly low talent level and gives what he has most every game and shift. No, the problems are with those who don't play up to their expectations, talent level (with some ?s) and contracts: Rask, Skinner, Darling, Faulk..., and to some extent Hanifin but he gets a pass. Lindholm has been in that group a good part of the season but when put in the proper role he usually comes thru and has been pretty good lately at center.

*AH* said:

but when put in the proper role

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To me this is the key. We have not put our guys in the proper role. A big part of that is the horse beaten to death holes in our roster at forward. However, once you realize you have that issue you need to find players who you can use to minimize the damage of those holes. Instead we just move everyone up a slot and expect guys like Ryan to be able to be able to handle the position. Seems like in our situation you need 2 guys to fill the 3C and 4C role who have complementary assets. So since Ryan is not that big and physical, the other one needs to be bigger and more physical. We also got ambushed by Rask being pretty much ineffective. Realistically, coming into the season it seemed like we had a decent plan for our known limitations... Staal, Rask, Ryan, Kruger with Aho and Lindholm also able to play C. Still missing the 1C, but Rask and Staal were both reasonable options for 2C - or should have been, so you're only overslotted 1 guy. Instead you have a 2C playing 1C, and then a collection of 4Cs - unless you move Lindholm or Aho to C, but that opens another hole at wing which we were unable to fill - inexplicably. (of course that's if you had confidence in Rask - which would have been a reach for me)

Once I realized Rask wasn't getting it done as a second line center, I'd have had to try Lindholm and or Aho at C and bring up one or more wingers from Charlotte (or make a trade) to fill the hole(s) that opens on your top 6. That leaves Rask, Ryan, and Kruger to fill your 4th line center or maybe 3rd and 4th line center.

I think this season will be hard to use as any kind of measure of the D, or progress on their development. I think the issues with goalies and the inconsistent play in general made it hard for them to establish any kind of rhythm. Seems like they were torn between trying to play the system the way coach was telling them to play it and trying to protect the weak goalies, which led to them being between caught in between, which is unfortunately for defense - the worst of both worlds. Slavin and Pesce were decent I think, but not as good as last season. Faulk was a disaster. TVR was consistently adequate. Hanifin and Fleury - not very fair to put kids trying to learn at this level into this mix - even our most experienced D has been unable to figure out how to make things work for the whole season - not sure how you expect a kid to figure it out. I think a new coaching staff with a system that fits our players will show that our D is still the position of strength we thought it was this summer. A big part of D is confidence and you're never going to have that when the system's not working and you're not sure what to do.

jeffbear said:

Slavin and Pesce haven't been half bad when you consider the situation they've been put in as still relatively young players. And honestly, McGinn has had a solid year. He's limited but he gives you what he's got. And I think we'd all agree that Cam Ward has out-performed his contract and expected role. That shouldn't get lost in the flood of disgruntlement with his partner in goal.

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Not sure I would agree on Cam. He is currently 42nd in the league in save percentage at .904 which is below his career number of .909. He also slots in at 32nd in the league in goalie cap hit. I think Cam has underperformed but he likely looks better than he has been since the guy we compare him with (Darling) is one of the worst goalies in modern history.

CarolinaPen said:

(Darling) is one of the worst goalies in modern history.

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+ Me

I just want that to sit out there by itself. We cannot have Darling back next season. I don't care if we pay him $4 mil for the next three years to catch butterflies. Just don't let him near the locker room.

Being the worst goalie in the nhl leaves him a lot of room for improvement. He can only go up.

Biggest five hole (per square foot) in NHL history.

CarolinaPen said:

Not sure I would agree on Cam. He is currently 42nd in the league in save percentage at .904 which is below his career number of .909. He also slots in at 32nd in the league in goalie cap hit. I think Cam has underperformed but he likely looks better than he has been since the guy we compare him with (Darling) is one of the worst goalies in modern history.

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Yeah ... caveat on Ward. During the portion of the season when he was actually playing a backup role, he was more than adequate and vastly better than I expected since he had struggled in spot duty in the past. Since he's been the ersatz starter, not so much. But we knew that was beyond his current capabilities so I'm willing to give him a pass. We're paying him to be a backup and he did a good job when that was his role.

Darling's numbers alone indicate his worth to this team ... which is epically, Biblically negative. Closer examination will only result in damaged vision, so I'm not going there.

andyt said:

I think Derek Ryan is a perfectly acceptable 4th line center. He wins faceoffs, he can kill penalties, etc. But in the grand tradition of so many before him, he's overslotted. And trading for Kruger guaranteed it.

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Depends entirely on how you use the fourth line. I don't like using it as a collecting place for specialists and misfits, because it basically precludes getting a productive regular shift out of that line. But we all know how this franchise has viewed that line over the decades and I'm not beating that dead horse again. Suffice to say that we've had maybe three or four full seasons worth of solid fourth line play in 20 years.

jeffbear said:

Depends entirely on how you use the fourth line. I don't like using it as a collecting place for specialists and misfits, because it basically precludes getting a productive regular shift out of that line. But we all know how this franchise has viewed that line over the decades and I'm not beating that dead horse again. Suffice to say that we've had maybe three or four full seasons worth of solid fourth line play in 20 years.

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Yeah, it's like this: Kevyn Adams > Derek Ryan

Simply allowing Derek Ryan's to be in the lineup leads to Derek Ryan playing on the PP and in OT. None of that is good. A new coach and GM won't have any loyalty to Derek Ryan UFA, so hopefully for the Canes sake he is allowed to sign elsewhere in the offseason. Nice guy, tries hard, could be a useful 4th line PK on some other team. But he needs to go along with Bill Peters.

cmaleski2 said:

Simply allowing Derek Ryan's to be in the lineup leads to Derek Ryan playing on the PP and in OT. None of that is good. A new coach and GM won't have any loyalty to Derek Ryan UFA, so hopefully for the Canes sake he is allowed to sign elsewhere in the offseason. Nice guy, tries hard, could be a useful 4th line PK on some other team. But he needs to go along with Bill Peters.

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As limited as he is, I watched Riley Nash kick Ryan around like a tin can the other night when Boston was in town and just couldn't help thinking ... what the heck GM prefers our 7 to their 20? And actually pays him a half a million MORE. God help us, but how did Francis keep that job so long?

jeffbear said:

As limited as he is, I watched Riley Nash kick Ryan around like a tin can the other night when Boston was in town and just couldn't help thinking ... what the heck GM prefers our 7 to their 20? And actually pays him a half a million MORE. God help us, but how did Francis keep that job so long?

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A good number of people on this board couldn't wait to be done with Nash...but he suffered from the same problem as Ryan; overslotting. He was basically a 30 point guy in Raleigh. He only had 7g/10a last year. But he's at 15/25 this year.