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Around the League 2017-2018 Edition

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MindzEye said:
Why is there any doubt about him returning to form? He's 32 not 38. Neither injury were of the career threatening sort.



Are there really? Haven't we been trying to land one of those without sending a wonderkid out the door in return for 3 years now?



Well when you're delusional about what he is and the likelihood of him returning to form as a #1 defender, I agree.
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You’re out to lunch and downplaying major risks and issues.

If you think the only dman out there for us to get is Weber, then you’re out to dinner too.
 
UWHabs said:
Yep if he retires big whoop. You take the cap savings and move on.

But if he's not good enough to want to play, but not bad enough to retire/LTIR, then you're in trouble.
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That's one of my main concerns, in a nutshell. That he turns into a Seabrook or Phaneuf performance-wise, but that he still wants to keep playing.

And I'm not willing to bet this team's hard-won Cup window on that NOT happening. It's just not worth it.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
You’re out to lunch and downplaying major risks and issues.
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Shea Weber has had just as many major knee surgeries as John Tavares has had. I'm not downplaying shit. The chance of a 33 yr old coming back from his first major knee surgery and achieving something resembling his pre injury form is pretty ****ing close to 100%.

If you think the only dman out there for us to get is Weber, then you’re out to dinner too.
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Weber is the only #1 RHD who is potentially out that that won't cost Nylander, full ****ing stop. Can we maybe get a guy like Faulk out of Carolina for less? Sure, but as much as he would be a nice upgrade over what we ran out there last year, he's probably closer to being a #3 than he is a #1.
 
LeafGm said:
That's one of my main concerns, in a nutshell. That he turns into a Seabrook or Phaneuf performance-wise, but that he still wants to keep playing.
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Robidas island is nice from what I hear.

Here's the thing. Phaneuf or Seabrook were never as good, at any time in their careers as 32 yr old Weber was playing on what was apparently an injured foot and an injured knee, both of which ended up requiring surgery. Weber could decline signficantly and still be our 2nd best defender.

And I'm not willing to bet this team's hard-won Cup window on that NOT happening. It's just not worth it.
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The odds of Shea Weber being a worse use of cap space over the next 3-4 seasons than Zaitsev, are incredibly slim. We're already betting on a legit money contract on a RHD, except the one we have in house is at his best when he's chasing the puck cross checking people, and even that he's only average at.

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We're already risking our chance at a cup on a piss poor right side of the blueline, this is probably the cheapest way to fix it.
 
number17 said:
It's a REALLY, REALLY high risk move. My fear isn't that he would retire if his health continues to deteriorate, my fear is he'd barely hang on to be borderline healthy but nowhere near as effective as he needs to be, but just wouldn't retire.
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Then he gets traded to Nashville for nothing and becomes their problem. Because the scenario you're spelling out there is exactly how veteran players get LTIR'd.

Sure, there's high reward if he resumes to form but like zeke said, this is a 33 yr old dman, who was not fast to begin with, and now has a bummed knee.
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Why do people keep acting like his knee is wrecked? When was the last time an elite player had a knee injury ruin their career? We've got a bucketload of conky and back issues that end careers, but knees? Not even impact knee injuries like Neely, Clark, but wear and tear knee injuries? Last guy I can think of is Pavel Bure.

Shit, Bure is the only guy I can think of. As for is hurting his speed, his game has never been predicated on speed but on positioning and IQ.
 
MindzEye said:
Then he gets traded to Nashville for nothing and becomes their problem. Because the scenario you're spelling out there is exactly how veteran players get LTIR'd.



Why do people keep acting like his knee is wrecked? When was the last time an elite player had a knee injury ruin their career? We've got a bucketload of conky and back issues that end careers, but knees? Not even impact knee injuries like Neely, Clark, but wear and tear knee injuries? Last guy I can think of is Pavel Bure.

Shit, Bure is the only guy I can think of. As for is hurting his speed, his game has never been predicated on speed but on positioning and IQ.
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If he was signed for one or two years and we get him for a song, I’m interested.

He’s not, so I’m not.

We don’t NEED this former and supposedly future #1 RHD so badly to give up assets, take his ridiculous contract, and hope and pray that he’s the same old guy. Now he’s just some old guy, and that’s not a risk we need or should take.

I’m perfectly content giving up a little something for Faulk or Pesce instead, thanks. Not in need of any hobbled supposed savior to help us be older, slower, and more injury prone.
 
BeLeafer said:
Mike Peca was never the same after his first major knee surgery. He was only 28 at the time.
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He was near the end of what was a complete career season and no, he never matched that again (60 points and a Selke). But the year before that he was .56ppg. The year after the surgery he was .63 and then again after that .53. Both years he finished top 5 in Selke voting.

So saying that he was "never the same" isn't really correct here imo. He even managed to have a season as a 33 yr old (.52ppg) that wouldn't have looked out of place with his prime seasons offensively.

He looked so bad for us though that I absolutely understand the reflex to believe that Darcy ruined his career, but it really doesn't look like that's the case.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
If he was signed for one or two years and we get him for a song, I’m interested.

He’s not, so I’m not.
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He's likely to remain very good for at least 3 years of the contract. Decline tends to treat elite players much kinder than it does regular mortals.

We don’t NEED this former and supposedly future #1 RHD so badly to give up assets, take his ridiculous contract, and hope and pray that he’s the same old guy. Now he’s just some old guy, and that’s not a risk we need or should take.
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Well, I've never suggested that we give up valuable assets. Just an overpaid #4-5 RHD and "stuff"

I’m perfectly content giving up a little something for Faulk or Pesce instead, thanks.
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Pesce isn't for sale apparently and **** me would you hate Faulk. He's like Gardiner, if Gardiner was a lot worse at everything and right handed.

Not in need of any hobbled supposed savior to help us be older, slower, and more injury prone.
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More injury prone than Zaitsev? You know that dude managed to play a full 60 game KHL schedule once in 7 seasons right? Missed about 15 games a season on average in his KHL career.

You missed the most important adjective though, the only one that matters. Better. Shea Weber is better than every defender on our team not named Rielly.
 
Was. And he costs more than Zaitsev, Gardiner, Dermott, and Carrick combined, so he would really need to be better. A lot better.

But he’s a guy who wasn’t really light on his skates before, and now he’s going to be that much heavier after basically a year of no games and coming back on a busted 33 year old knee. Nope, not convinced.

Totally senseless and unnecessary risk to take. You don’t make moves for an older player taking up 10% of the cap just on a hunch. It’s reckless shit like this that could derail every good thing that’s happened for the past two years.
 
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MindzEye said:
He was near the end of what was a complete career season and no, he never matched that again (60 points and a Selke). But the year before that he was .56ppg. The year after the surgery he was .63 and then again after that .53. Both years he finished top 5 in Selke voting.

So saying that he was "never the same" isn't really correct here imo. He even managed to have a season as a 33 yr old (.52ppg) that wouldn't have looked out of place with his prime seasons offensively.

He looked so bad for us though that I absolutely understand the reflex to believe that Darcy ruined his career, but it really doesn't look like that's the case.
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The injury happened in the 2002 playoffs. He went from a perrennial 20+ goal scorer to a guy who could barely crack double digits. So, yes, he was never the same again.

In terms of Selke voting ... Larry Brooks et al don't mean much.
 
You would have to think that IF the Leafs trade for Weber.... and i believe that is a major IF.... it would have to be because all other options have been exhausted... I would find it very hard to believe that this management team would sit down and agree that getting Weber is priority #1.
 
LeafGm said:
That's a really pretty picture of what Weber was at 30/31 years of age.

Too bad the Weber we'd be acquiring would be 33-37 years of age, coming off major surgery on each leg & fresh off a full calendar year of not playing professional hockey.

And of course, we all know how great physical players typically age into their mid/late 30's.
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A lot of that is Weber playing on a broken foot and a wonky knee. Those will presumably be healed and fixed when he returns in like December.

I think there's a real good chance that Weber looks better than he has been in a couple years.

I still hate the Subban trade, but Weber is a hell of a dman. He has a few very good years left.
 
number17 said:
It's a REALLY, REALLY high risk move. My fear isn't that he would retire if his health continues to deteriorate, my fear is he'd barely hang on to be borderline healthy but nowhere near as effective as he needs to be, but just wouldn't retire.

Sure, there's high reward if he resumes to form but like zeke said, this is a 33 yr old dman, who was not fast to begin with, and now has a bummed knee.
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No, he HAD a bummed knee. Now he'll have a fixed knee.
 
Zaitsev + 2 of the follow 3 assets (brown, rasanen, 1st) would need to be part of a deal to get the habs to move him to us and eat money.
 
Bad contracts are just way too costly in this NHL. If Weber was signed for 4 years less then its tough decision, but 8 years? Doesn't warrant much consideration.
 
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