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Thread: 2017-18 Miscellaneous Canes News Thread

  1. #1121
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    Default Re: 2017-18 Miscellaneous Canes News Thread

    Hopefully Brindy has some say so in these matters. In Rod We Trust.
    Shape Up or Ship Out

  2. #1122
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    Default Re: 2017-18 Miscellaneous Canes News Thread

    Wasn’t Ron’s number 10? It’s a sign from the hockey gods, trade skinner for the 10th pick and get a sure fire hofer.

  3. #1123
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    Default Re: 2017-18 Miscellaneous Canes News Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by dwind View Post
    Wasn’t Ron’s number 10? It’s a sign from the hockey gods, trade skinner for the 10th pick and get a sure fire hofer.
    He was also #21 so let’s not get carried away...

  4. #1124
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    Default Re: 2017-18 Miscellaneous Canes News Thread

    Darren Yorke is now head of scouting , he was promoted to that spot . He takes over for Daniels. they have 2 new guys as video scouts, Trace Linton and Bob Teofilo . (not sure if Bob is new or not , he seems to be )

    Also prospect camp is open to public June 27-30 with the main summerfest on the 30th with a prospect scrimmage at noon.

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    All-Star SlapShots's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2017-18 Miscellaneous Canes News Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts View Post
    Darren Yorke is now head of scouting , he was promoted to that spot . He takes over for Daniels. they have 2 new guys as video scouts, Trace Linton and Bob Teofilo . (not sure if Bob is new or not , he seems to be )
    Just for clarification, Paulie-- Looks like Darren Yorke's new position is not the Jeff Daniels old one. Per the hockey ops page:
    Darren Yorke is in his ninth season with the Hurricanes, and his first as Manager of Scouting. As manager of scouting, Yorke assists the management team with professional and amateur player evaluations, approves scouting schedules, and leads the team's annual scouting meetings.

    JD was the head of professional scouting-- was he responsible for Darling, Kruger and Jooris?

    That Trace Linton is young-- I think I read something that he's 25 years old...

  6. #1126
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    Default Re: 2017-18 Miscellaneous Canes News Thread

    Yorke started as Francis’ analytics guy, when he was Rutherford’s assistant.

  7. #1127
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    Default Re: 2017-18 Miscellaneous Canes News Thread

    OK I looked these guys up on LinkedIn - Bob is new , hired last month. He got his degree in 2007. Trace was hired in Sept. and he is around 25, got his degree in 2016. He worked in scouting for Blue Jackets for a year before coming here.

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    Default Re: 2017-18 Miscellaneous Canes News Thread

    Does it concern anyone else that we're clearly getting even more analytics driven in the scouting department? I know I'm old, but at some point I want an old hand who knows what the heck he's looking at to watch tape and check off the rest of the boxes on these guys.

    I'm ever reminded of how valuable Semin was to those looking entirely at the analytics. Meanwhile he was nearly useless in, you know - the actual games.

  9. #1129
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    Default Re: 2017-18 Miscellaneous Canes News Thread

    +1 ^

    I am also one who values someone with hockey eyeballs.

    Here is an apple to orange question. Does analytics work better on golf swings than in assessing hock players? You can analyze my golf swing all day long. Won't fix it and I've seen people with strange swings accomplish the same task.

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    Default Re: 2017-18 Miscellaneous Canes News Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by KTown11 View Post
    +1 ^

    I am also one who values someone with hockey eyeballs.

    Here is an apple to orange question. Does analytics work better on golf swings than in assessing hock players? You can analyze my golf swing all day long. Won't fix it and I've seen people with strange swings accomplish the same task.
    Yeah ... that's definitely apples and oranges. I mean, I guess you can apply swing analytics to a player's shot to maximize blade angle and that kind of stuff, but that's NOT what's happening with advanced analytics as used in scouting. That's when you're trying to delve beyond the actual goals, assists and other traditional measurables to see the value in stuff like possession stats, shift value and potential outcomes.

    And look ... I'm not dogmatic about the issue of advanced analytics. I feel like there's value in the exercise. I just feel like good scouting blends the traditional methods with the advanced metrics. I'm not at all convinced of the order of merit ... which should inform which in other words ... but I am convinced that you can screw it all up by leaning too heavily in either direction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffbear View Post
    Yeah ... that's definitely apples and oranges. I mean, I guess you can apply swing analytics to a player's shot to maximize blade angle and that kind of stuff, but that's NOT what's happening with advanced analytics as used in scouting. That's when you're trying to delve beyond the actual goals, assists and other traditional measurables to see the value in stuff like possession stats, shift value and potential outcomes.

    And look ... I'm not dogmatic about the issue of advanced analytics. I feel like there's value in the exercise. I just feel like good scouting blends the traditional methods with the advanced metrics. I'm not at all convinced of the order of merit ... which should inform which in other words ... but I am convinced that you can screw it all up by leaning too heavily in either direction.
    Okay, but I revert back to my hockey view on using hockey eyeballs and not going overboard with using the hockey beer goggles which leads to an Alex Semin type of situation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KTown11 View Post
    Okay, but I revert back to my hockey view on using hockey eyeballs and not going overboard with using the hockey beer goggles which leads to an Alex Semin type of situation.
    To me, Semin is the local poster boy for being wary of over-reliance on analytics.

  13. #1133
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    Default Re: 2017-18 Miscellaneous Canes News Thread

    Just heard someone this morning talking about Semin on NHL radio noting that his collapse as a player is still one of the biggest mysteries in pro hockey.

    Don't think you can lay that one at the feet of analytics.
    Here we are now...entertain us.

  14. #1134
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    Default Re: 2017-18 Miscellaneous Canes News Thread

    they have had 2 analytics guys for a while. Did they add anyone else? Those 2 guys I mentioned above are video scouts.

    For those that don't know, the Triangle is flooded with people who make a living using stats. And it's been that way for a while. Besides SAS you have a ton of CROs such as PRA, PPD, Syneos, IQVIA (was Quintiles) , Parexel , Covance and others. This is one of the world capitals of stats/analytics. NCSU and UNC both have very large stats departments. NCSU is one of the biggest in the US.

  15. #1135
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    Default Re: 2017-18 Miscellaneous Canes News Thread

    Just heard someone this morning talking about Semin on NHL radio noting that his collapse as a player is still one of the biggest mysteries in pro hockey.
    Got paid, shed the compete effort?
    Lost the heart and will to put in the work in the offseason?
    Lost the desire to play the game?
    Lost a step and became exposed?

    All of the above?

    Not the first player that has happened to, but it would be the Canes who got burned .

    Note that the complete disappearance of any semblance of Semin's NHL game happened during Bill Peters first season as coach. In hindsight now, anyone think that some of what destroyed Semin is the same thing that has made Jeff Skinner look like a problem that has to go? Mainly HC Bill Peters? Not saying that Semin wasn't the issue, but I wonder if the results might have ended up different if Peters was never our coach.

    Since we are on the topic of Alex Semin, he's going to be back in the KHL this season....so he hasn't completely walked away from the game as stories seemed to indicate before last season. He played last season in the VHL, which is basically the "KHL's AHL":

    https://russianmachineneverbreaks.co...r-deal-vityaz/
    Last edited by cmaleski2; 06-14-2018 at 12:29 PM.

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    Default Re: 2017-18 Miscellaneous Canes News Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts View Post
    For those that don't know, the Triangle is flooded with people who make a living using stats.
    Guilty as charged!

  17. #1137
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    Default Re: 2017-18 Miscellaneous Canes News Thread

    The person they added to back up Eric Tulsky (who is still discussed with reverent tones among hockey stat geeks) was one of my favorite follows on Twitter, Kevin Kan, who posted under the handle of @datarink I believe and also had a hockey stat website.

    His specialty was visual presentations of data in non-typical manners, like posting shots against during a game as a time-compressed pong video game so you could get a feel for both quantity and shot-rate pace as the game evolved. He just had a real inventive flair for being able to illustrate tons of data in a very visual and unconventional manner.

    I thought it was a good add, although bemoaned the shutdown of his site and being able to enjoy those graphic representations once he went private. But at least I knew those talents now worked for us. I think they let him process the data, freeing Eric up to continue to find new ways to manipulate the data.

    Eric was known for inventing stat concepts, not just using them. Now proprietary to us, I suppose.
    Here we are now...entertain us.

  18. #1138
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    Default Re: 2017-18 Miscellaneous Canes News Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffbear View Post
    To me, Semin is the local poster boy for being wary of over-reliance on analytics.
    Except for Semin was very good for a period of time. He had his issues from the beginning, but he was good. Then he fell apart.

    I don't see him as the poster boy for analytics. I also think he fell apart because the Canes fell apart. He may have been a key contributor to the collapse, but he certainly wasn't alone.

  19. #1139
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    Default Re: 2017-18 Miscellaneous Canes News Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by cmon3 View Post
    Except for Semin was very good for a period of time. He had his issues from the beginning, but he was good. Then he fell apart.

    I don't see him as the poster boy for analytics. I also think he fell apart because the Canes fell apart. He may have been a key contributor to the collapse, but he certainly wasn't alone.
    I use him as a reference because of the non-stop defenses we saw of his (obvious) bad play using Corsi numbers and other fancy-pants stats to back up the apologists. I'm aware that he was effective for one season and a part of another and that the team fell apart in the same stretch. It's a narrow window of time I'm talking about ... but the defenses of his crappy play using advanced metrics were VERY real.

    And for the record ... I'm NOT dismissing advanced metric or analytics or whatever other terminology somebody wants to throw out. I'm saying that any evaluations of players need to be accompanied by visual confirmation from somebody who actually knows what an effective shift looks like in real time. Not video ... real time. Because, and pardon my simplification to serve the point here, the game is actually played in real time.
    Last edited by jeffbear; 06-14-2018 at 01:47 PM.

  20. #1140
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    Default Re: 2017-18 Miscellaneous Canes News Thread

    I just blogged about this general discussion this week in a totally different context, but the title was "Metrics Provide Clues, Not Answers"

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