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2017-18 Miscellaneous Canes News Thread

Jeffbear slotted in-house candidate Vellucci in the GM slot, where he would perform just fine.

But he would be an even more interesting head coach choice, in my opinion, and that is where his interests lie per McKenzie.

Already running Peters' system in Charlotte so can now tweak his way but from a common vocabulary. Knows the youngsters well. Shouldn't be afraid to use them.

Potentially a smooth transition to hopefully avoid yet another lost season retooling.

From what I'm reading and hearing and from reading between the lines, I do think Vellucci is pretty much 100% moving to Raleigh as soon as the Checkers are out of the playoffs. It's the capacity I'm guessing on ... I think GM, but it's only a hunch, based on that position being trickier to fill. And again, I'd be fine with Vellucci in either role. I think he's ready for the bigs, and that we could do a LOT worse in either role.

Oh ... and I think we need to take "Peters'" system out and give it a viking funeral. As do the two or three other teams that are beating their head against that brick wall right now. Toronto's the only one getting anywhere close to playing it well and they're never going to be able to afford the level of forward talent it requires to win playing that way in a cap environment in the long term.
 
They were just shaking their collective heads over Babcock's system on NHL Radio a moment ago.

Just don't have the D-corps or, apparently, forward talent to play it was the assessment. And there was talk about not many others playing hockey that way.

I'm assuming we will begin to move away from the Peters binder system, regardless of who is our next coach. Although there were skills learned from playing it, like how to maintain tight gaps, that can be applied elsewhere when needed.

Heck, maybe we'll even start easing attacking forwards toward the walls instead of losing them down the slot.
 
They were just shaking their collective heads over Babcock's system on NHL Radio a moment ago.

Just don't have the D-corps or, apparently, forward talent to play it was the assessment. And there was talk about not many others playing hockey that way.

I'm assuming we will begin to move away from the Peters binder system, regardless of who is our next coach. Although there were skills learned from playing it, like how to maintain tight gaps, that can be applied elsewhere when needed.

Heck, maybe we'll even start easing attacking forwards toward the walls instead of losing them down the slot.

Maybe the Toronto media can manage to chase Babcock out of town. I would personally go pick him up and drive him to Raleigh.....and I live in CA!
 
Maybe the Toronto media can manage to chase Babcock out of town. I would personally go pick him up and drive him to Raleigh.....and I live in CA!

Not if he's going to keep trying to run that Bowman system. Our rosters is light years away from being able to do that.
 
Decent Dundon interview by Wyshynski on ESPN on Ice podcast. Sorry, didn’t know how to post the link.
Reaffirms thoughts on spending cash for GM and coach (big bucks really needed?) and realistic assessment of market (IMHO).
 
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I have been a big Dundon supporter so far. I was thrilled when he became the owner. Pretty mixed feelings about this interview.

The sitting in on player interview part at end of the season was pretty funny and I liked his answer. The GM/Coach pay situation was a little awkward. Really sounds like the Canes are going to hire some no-name cheap guys for each role that he thinks are qualified and underappreciated elsewhere. Pencil in Velucci for one of the roles. The next cheapest guy gets what is left. Not feeling great at this point about upcoming coach and GM hire.
 
I have been a big Dundon supporter so far. I was thrilled when he became the owner. Pretty mixed feelings about this interview.

The sitting in on player interview part at end of the season was pretty funny and I liked his answer. The GM/Coach pay situation was a little awkward. Really sounds like the Canes are going to hire some no-name cheap guys for each role that he thinks are qualified and underappreciated elsewhere. Pencil in Velucci for one of the roles. The next cheapest guy gets what is left. Not feeling great at this point about upcoming coach and GM hire.

I'm not either. I'm more convinced than ever that we're going to get either Vellucci or Brind'Amour for the coaching gig, but I'm not sure anybody who would take our GM job for the wages he seems to think the job is worth is going to add anything of any value at all.
 
I'm not either. I'm more convinced than ever that we're going to get either Vellucci or Brind'Amour for the coaching gig, but I'm not sure anybody who would take our GM job for the wages he seems to think the job is worth is going to add anything of any value at all.

How can a guy who has made that much of a fortune running successful businesses be dumb enough to think you can pay peanuts to an NHL Coach and GM just because you think you are being innovative???

We all agreed when Dundon bought the team that the single biggest need was to find a true President and Head Honcho of Hockey Operations...yet here we are.
 
We all agreed when Dundon bought the team that the single biggest need was to find a true President and Head Honcho of Hockey Operations...yet here we are.

And this was exactly why most of us felt this way. Particularly with an owner coming in with very little exposure to the league, a good President would go a long way.
 
Its a value thing though with Dundon. If there is clear evidence that paying more for a coach or GM is going to almost guarantee you results, Dundon is willing to pay the money. Right now it appears that Dundon doesn't see the cost benefits of forking over the big bucks for a coach or GM. That being the case, he's going to start out doing things on the cheap in those areas. Sounds like a businessman running a business to me which is pretty much what Dundon said he expected his approach would be.

That will either work or it won't. If you believe Dundon, if that doesn't work then he would consider changing that approach, and maybe he goes out and hires an experience GM and coach.

What we believe the right approach is won't matter of course...I think all of us would rather see money spent and experienced hires brought in. Right now Dundon is taking heat without having actually done anything yet and with no results at all to evaluate? Sure we might all think this is heading for disaster, and maybe it is. But no one has been hired yet except for a guy experienced in contracts. It all feels risky to me and I think to most of the rest of us, but none of us really know what is going to happen....with the GM, the coach, the player/roster changes. All we can do is trust Dundon and see what happens and take him at his word that is something doesn't work he will try something else.

I'm at least willing to see how this all plays out before slamming Dundon as an egotistical ass. We really don't know what happens with these hires or what the end result of those hires and player changes will be. We have nothing at all to go on right now but Dundon's statements. For all we know he hires Dave Tippett and Fletcher as GM and this was all just talk to drive down the price. Or maybe its 'who the heck knows' as the GM and Vellucci as head coach and Vellucci brings some sort of new passion to the team and succeeds? There is just nothing to go off of at the moment other than some statements. Its way too early to declare Dundon a disaster, that conversation needs to wait at least until next season....
 
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I
I'm at least willing to see how this all plays out before slamming Dundon as an egotistical ass.

I'm not seeing or hearing anybody really doing that, aside from usual Twitter riff raff.

That said, I think his approach is well off course based solely on the reasonable amount he's said and the very small amount that he's actually done. I'm perfectly willing to let this stuff play out, but I've got the right to be uncomfortable with the process thus far.
 
Its a value thing though with Dundon. If there is clear evidence that paying more for a coach or GM is going to almost guarantee you results, Dundon is willing to pay the money. Right now it appears that Dundon doesn't see the cost benefits of forking over the big bucks for a coach or GM. That being the case, he's going to start out doing things on the cheap in those areas. Sounds like a businessman running a business to me which is pretty much what Dundon said he expected his approach would be.

That will either work or it won't. If you believe Dundon, if that doesn't work then he would consider changing that approach, and maybe he goes out and hires an experience GM and coach.

What we believe the right approach is won't matter of course...I think all of us would rather see money spent and experienced hires brought in. Right now Dundon is taking heat without having actually done anything yet and with no results at all to evaluate? Sure we might all think this is heading for disaster, and maybe it is. But no one has been hired yet except for a guy experienced in contracts. It all feels risky to me and I think to most of the rest of us, but none of us really know what is going to happen....with the GM, the coach, the player/roster changes. All we can do is trust Dundon and see what happens and take him at his word that is something doesn't work he will try something else.

I'm at least willing to see how this all plays out before slamming Dundon as an egotistical ass. We really don't know what happens with these hires or what the end result of those hires and player changes will be. We have nothing at all to go on right now but Dundon's statements.

The only thing is, Dundon does not have time to burn here with his science experiments if they don't work...in some markets maybe, but not here, can this market take another two to three years of disaster as he figures it all out on the fly? The safer approach is to go with the experienced hands in my opinion.
 
I said:

I'm at least willing to see how this all plays out before slamming Dundon as an egotistical ass.

JB said:

I'm not seeing or hearing anybody really doing that, aside from usual Twitter riff raff.

That said, I think his approach is well off course based solely on the reasonable amount he's said and the very small amount that he's actually done. I'm perfectly willing to let this stuff play out, but I've got the right to be uncomfortable with the process thus far.

The media is doing it at some level already. I can say for sure I will be calling him exactly that if he does go forward with 'management on the cheap' and we start regressing even further. But right now? We have no clue what happens and how it works out.
 
The only thing is, Dundon does not have time to burn here with his science experiments if they don't work...in some markets maybe, but not here, can this market take another two to three years of disaster as he figures it all out on the fly? The safer approach is to go with the experienced hands in my opinion.

Right, I agree with that and Dundon agrees with that (at least he seems to). The problem that Dundon has is that he has nothing that clearly shows that if he spends, say, $5 million combined bringing in Chuck Fletcher and Dave Tippett, that the results will end up any better than if he hires 'really smart assistant GM from somewhere' and Mike Vellucci for $2 million. Yeah OUR gut feel makes that seem like a no brainer to us (money not being an object), but Dundon has pretty clearly stated that he doesn't make many business decisions on "gut feel".

I think this the big disconnect we all have at the moment with him. Dundon is reluctant to spend money without clear evidence that will lead to 'winning'. We all see experience as the better bet, Dundon isn't willing to spend extra money without data showing that is the right thing to do. I expect that to carry over to the player decisions as well....show me that forking over huge bucks to John Taveres makes us a playoff team. What is the evidence?

Until things start to happen and scores start being kept again, we don't know where this all leads. I think all of us see cheap and inexperienced as reckless and potentially disasterous. I can't argue that what it appears Dundon appears to be planning on doing with the coach and GM are not both of those things. Dundon see this all as 'cost/benefit analysis' and 'running a business'. Will it work? All we can do is wait and see. Certainly what we have been doing for the last 9 seasons hasn't worked...
 
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Smart cheap and inexperienced is better than stupid expensive and over the hill. I get that. I also get that the gap between those two things is 10 miles wide.

At this point I honestly wish I trusted Dundon to make smart, effective hockey decisions regardless of cost. I just don't and nothing he's either said or done so far is helping me get there.
 
The media is doing it at some level already. I can say for sure I will be calling him exactly that if he does go forward with 'management on the cheap' and we start regressing even further. But right now? We have no clue what happens and how it works out.

Yeah. I take so much of what he hockey media says about our franchise with a grain of salt that sometimes I forget they're even out there. Braying away.
 
I pretty much blew this story off when it came out during the purchase, as I figured it was just NHL old schoolers going after the new guy. Now a couple months in and with some evidence mounting in regards to his actions (or lack of action) and comments in various interviews it is worth bringing up the type of business man Dundon is. He got rich taking advantage of people when he had leverage over them or they were vulnerable. I have seen nothing recently that steers me away from this article as he seems to be applying the same principles to the GM search and likely new head coach.

https://deadspin.com/the-hurricanes-new-owner-got-rich-off-subprime-loans-1822129399

I continue to hold out hope that his ego will end up winning over his cheap side and he takes a run at a Tavares, or his unconventional approach actually works long term. I am growing more impatient and turning on him slowly with each passing day. The truth is we won't know what all the crazy moves he does this off-season regarding roster, GM and coaching mean until 1-2 years from now but he is charting a difficult and unconventional path. I hope it works out.
 
I pretty much blew this story off when it came out during the purchase, as I figured it was just NHL old schoolers going after the new guy. Now a couple months in and with some evidence mounting in regards to his actions (or lack of action) and comments in various interviews it is worth bringing up the type of business man Dundon is. He got rich taking advantage of people when he had leverage over them or they were vulnerable. I have seen nothing recently that steers me away from this article as he seems to be applying the same principles to the GM search and likely new head coach.

https://deadspin.com/the-hurricanes-new-owner-got-rich-off-subprime-loans-1822129399

I continue to hold out hope that his ego will end up winning over his cheap side and he takes a run at a Tavares, or his unconventional approach actually works long term. I am growing more impatient and turning on him slowly with each passing day. The truth is we won't know what all the crazy moves he does this off-season regarding roster, GM and coaching mean until 1-2 years from now but he is charting a difficult and unconventional path. I hope it works out.

Worth noting here just how much money Karmanos and Compuware made ... ummm ... "helping" businesses that were paranoid about computer system "vulnerabilities" in the run up to Y2K. Business is business and a lot of people make their wealth by leveraging things we'd just as soon not look at too closely.
 
from twitter:

Latvian Hockey Federation to host a press conference to announce the retirement of Artūrs Irbe's #1 prior to Latvia - Swiss game on April 26th.
 
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