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The Good The Bad & The Ugly: Game #4: Blackhawks @ Canadiens

DonKay said:
I'll ask a very simple questions because I see your points and they make sense.

However I cannot dismiss as easily as you guys are the aspect of scoring abilities.

Do you believe that there are NHL players that are just not good at scoring goals?

If so, do you believe we have enough players that are good at scoring goals?
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I believe there are NHL players who do not generate enough chances to score goals in large quantities.

in terms of top 9 forwards.... most if given enough shots, will score goals. There are a few who wouldn't (aka the John Scotts of the world), but these have become harder to find in the NHL in recent years.

So yes, while there are players who are not good at scoring goals, that comes from their inability to generate shots and chances from high danger areas. if you are a top 9 NHLer and get to the front of the net, you can score goals.


Do we have enough players who can score goals? Enough for what? To win the cup? No. To be a middle of the pack offensive team, good defensive squad, and overall good but not great team? yes.
 
Habspatrol said:
Of course. That really doesn't even need a response.

We basically have the same team that finished 15th in goals last season. So...
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I honestly think we are better than last year. We have good line combinations imo. This team will score goals ... it is coming. I do not believe we will be fighting for a playoff spot but will be fighting for the division lead. Lots of hockey to be played.
 
BKerr said:
Unless you are a john scott or some other talentless plug... top 9 nhl forwards are going to score between 8-12% of their shots.

A guy like ovechkin or laine or stamkos might go a little above that... but those guys are rare. Even then ovys numbers arent that much higher. His quantity of goals is due to the fact he almost always leads the league in shots.

Guess who almost always leads our team in shots? Max. The same guy who leads in goals.

premium Goal scorers in the nhl are only marginally better shooters than other players. the main reason they put up more goals isnt because their shots are that much better its because they find ways to take more shots. volume is key here.

If we keep getting this level of possession we wont be bottom 10 in the nhl in goals scored over 82 games. We will be at worst in the middle of the pack.
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Guys like Ovy, Laine, Max, etc, are substantially better shooters than others, the reason their shots total is higher and their % lower is that they can take shots from lower % areas and have a decent chance to score. That's why those guys love camping in the higher circles of the offensive zone, they can get open for a good shot with a decent chance to score from there. Most other players needs to get close to hope to score. Give Plekanec the same number of shots as Ovy and he won't score 40.
 
Habs53 said:
I honestly think we are better than last year. We have good line combinations imo. This team will score goals ... it is coming. I do not believe we will be fighting for a playoff spot but will be fighting for the division lead. Lots of hockey to be played.
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Slower, more defensive minded defense, shitty power play, and basically the same forward group as last season, but this team will be better?

I want whatever you are smoking.
 
Habs53 said:
I honestly think we are better than last year. We have good line combinations imo. This team will score goals ... it is coming. I do not believe we will be fighting for a playoff spot but will be fighting for the division lead. Lots of hockey to be played.
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I think we are hindered by our weakness at center...we have two centers that are limited offensively and that will hinder the wingers production.

Plekanec is not what he used to be, this is established, coming off a 28 point season is not a slump, it's a new reality for him.

Danault is a 3rd line center end of story.

The production of a line is heavily weighed by the creativity of the center when your wingers are not Max Paciorretty or any other elite scorer in particular.

I still think goals will be hard to come by for the two lines centered by Pleks and Danault because the wingers we have like most in the NHL do need help scoring goals.
 
DonKay said:
I think we are hindered by our weakness at center...we have two centers that are limited offensively and that will hinder the wingers production.

Plekanec is not what he used to be, this is established, coming off a 28 point season is not a slump, it's a new reality for him.

Danault is a 3rd line center end of story.

The production of a line is heavily weighed by the creativity of the center when your wingers are not Max Paciorretty or any other elite scorer in particular.

I still think goals will be hard to come by for the two lines centered by Pleks and Danault because the wingers we have like most in the NHL do need help scoring goals.
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Our centers are better than last year though.
 
GrandWazoo said:
Our centers are better than last year though.
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I can't say I'm thrilled that Plekanec is our #2 center.

But it is what it is....we've been used to this problem for a long long time.

In my ideal world we'd have Drouin and AG as a 1-2 punch.

That's the skill level I want to see for 1-2 at center.
 
DonKay said:
I can't say I'm thrilled that Plekanec is our #2 center.

But it is what it is....we've been used to this problem for a long long time.

In my ideal world we'd have Drouin and AG as a 1-2 punch.

That's the skill level I want to see for 1-2 at center.
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I agree. What we're missing is Radulov on the wing who was able to generate scoring chances all on his own.
 
GrandWazoo said:
I agree. What we're missing is Radulov on the wing who was able to generate scoring chances all on his own.
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I still think Plekanec would bring radulov down.

danault did the dirty work along boards and in traffic so that Radulov can handle the puck.

Plekanec is not that type of player.

MB said this about Pleks last year....with age Plekanec is not as inclined to take hits etc..
 
GrandWazoo said:
Guys like Ovy, Laine, Max, etc, are substantially better shooters than others, the reason their shots total is higher and their % lower is that they can take shots from lower % areas and have a decent chance to score. That's why those guys love camping in the higher circles of the offensive zone, they can get open for a good shot with a decent chance to score from there. Most other players needs to get close to hope to score. Give Plekanec the same number of shots as Ovy and he won't score 40.
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Ovy is slightly better, he can put up 12.4% for his career, where most forwards are between 8-11.

Yes, he has an edge. But its a small one.

Pacioretty, career 11.3%, so again on the upper end of shooters, but not ovy.

Laine had a monster year at 17.6% last year. And while i expect him to be above 12. I think his career average will fall as time goes on, into around the same territory as Ovechkin.

Stamkos might be the best shooter of them all, with a career mark at 17%

But those are the exceptions.


For most players... putting up a lot of goals, is done by putting up a high volume of scoring chances....

The Habs are not just dominating shot totals right now, but also high danger scoring chances. The offense is much better than its showed.
 
Altair said:
Slower, more defensive minded defense, shitty power play, and basically the same forward group as last season, but this team will be better?

I want whatever you are smoking.
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We are a few games into the season. Get off the depressants lol. The doom and gloom among some of you is almost as bad as the leafs winning the cup every October.
 
Habs53 said:
We are a few games into the season. Get off the depressants lol. The doom and gloom among some of you is almost as bad as the leafs winning the cup every October.
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I said this before the season started, nothing I've seen has changed my opinion.
 
BKerr said:
Ovy is slightly better, he can put up 12.4% for his career, where most forwards are between 8-11.

Yes, he has an edge. But its a small one.

Pacioretty, career 11.3%, so again on the upper end of shooters, but not ovy.

Laine had a monster year at 17.6% last year. And while i expect him to be above 12. I think his career average will fall as time goes on, into around the same territory as Ovechkin.

Stamkos might be the best shooter of them all, with a career mark at 17%

But those are the exceptions.


For most players... putting up a lot of goals, is done by putting up a high volume of scoring chances....

The Habs are not just dominating shot totals right now, but also high danger scoring chances. The offense is much better than its showed.
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My point was that guys like Ovy gets a lot of shots because they are taking shots from just about anywhere, which brings down their shooting % a bit. Most players needs to get into better position to have a legit chance of scoring. But yes I agree with you in general.
 
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