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Thread: GDT: Game #18 | Sabres vs. Canadiens | Nov. 11, 2017

  1. #81
    Legend Habs-25's Avatar
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    Default Re: GDT: Game #18 | Sabres vs. Canadiens | Nov. 11, 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by legoalie View Post
    Name me a team in the last 10 years that won a cup without a franchise goalie ?
    Depend how you define a franchise goalie, Neimi won, Crawford won the cup few times and as far as i know, no one consider him at the same level as Price, Ludq, Quick, etc. Ducks won with Giguere and Bryzgalov, Boston won with Thomas, Pens won with Murray. None have the same status as the goalies i have mentioned(or at least not yet), bottom line is these days there are many decent goalies, and on top of that, any goalie can get hot and take you far, but to exactly answer your question, spending 11 millions on goalies is just stupid, it doesn't guaranty you anything, you can be wise, spend 4-5 millions on some very good goalies and spend the rest of money somewhere else(C or top defenders).

    I have no issue with Price at around 6 millions for the next 6 years maximum, but 11 millions on 8 years it is just way overpaid and too long! WAY TOO LONG!!
    Last edited by Habs-25; 11-13-2017 at 11:39 PM.

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    The Artist Formerly Known as chiggins. CH1's Avatar
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    Default Re: GDT: Game #18 | Sabres vs. Canadiens | Nov. 11, 2017

    Sure, you need a solid goalie to make a run. But you don't have to pay them over $10M. Top line pivots/d-men never come cheap.
    Some GMs get you to the playoffs and some GMs get you through the playoffs.

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    Legend GrandWazoo's Avatar
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    Default Re: GDT: Game #18 | Sabres vs. Canadiens | Nov. 11, 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by legoalie View Post
    Anti would be an exception, why would the Hawks not keep him ? instead they went with Crawford.. Osgood is a franchise goalie imo for the reasons you state.. so 1 out of 10...in a decade, pretty low percentage ... yea lets build that way...
    I'll disagree with Osgood, he wasn't a franchise goalie, which is why the Wings kept trying to upgrade on him and even went and got Hasek the year before and they share the duties that year. But he had a knack for elevating his game in the playoffs (is it what some people call clutch? I can't remember).

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    Default Re: GDT: Game #18 | Sabres vs. Canadiens | Nov. 11, 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by Habs-25 View Post
    Depend how you define a franchise goalie, Neimi won, Crawford won the cup few times and as far as i know, no one consider him at the as same level as Price, Ludq, Quick, etc. Ducks won with Giguere and Bryzgalov, Boston won with Thomas, Pens won with Murray. None have the same status as the goalies i have mentioned(or at least not yet), bottom line is these days there are many decent goalies, and on top of that, any goalie can get hot and take you far, but to exactly answer your question, spending 11 millions on goalies is just stupid, it doesn't guaranty you anything, you can be wise, spend 4-5 millions on some very good goalies and spend the rest of money somewhere else(C or top defenders).

    I have no issue with Price at around 6 millions for the next 6 years maximum, but 11 millions on 8 years it is just way overpaid and too long! WAY TOO LONG!!
    Crawford is criminally underrated, I have no problem considering him in the same category of Price, Lundqvist, Quick, etc.

    Goalie A : .919%, 2.37GAA
    Goalie B : .919%, 2.33GAA
    Goalie C : .919%, 2.43GAA
    Goalie D : .916%, 2.26GAA

    Those are career numbers for Crawford and the 3 goalies named above.

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    Legend Altair's Avatar
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    Default Re: GDT: Game #18 | Sabres vs. Canadiens | Nov. 11, 2017

    If crawford, a non vezina winning goalie is a franchise goalie, every goalie is a franchise goalie.
    No one loves the warrior until the enemy is at the gate.

    Quote Originally Posted by zeke View Post
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    Canadiens Moderator Rolex's Avatar
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    Default Re: GDT: Game #18 | Sabres vs. Canadiens | Nov. 11, 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by Altair View Post
    If crawford, a non vezina winning goalie is a franchise goalie, every goalie is a franchise goalie.
    Outside of his lone Vezina/Hart season, Price has won jack shit in his career in the NHL.....

    If anything, he will go down as the best regular season goalie of his generation.....him, Max, and Pleks truly deserve each others.....
    "Love one another as I have loved you"... Jesus-Christ our Holy Lord and Savior Forever Amen and Alleluia !!!

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    Wrong Thinker Extraordinaire Habsy's Avatar
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    Default Re: GDT: Game #18 | Sabres vs. Canadiens | Nov. 11, 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by legoalie View Post
    You need a franchise goalie to win a cup. As a fan I don't care how long our goalie is signed for or at what price, all I care about is the next game and THIS season.. it's the GM's job to worry about that not mine.. we need a number 1 L d-man and another A center man and this club can do damage..
    So business as usual then?
    #FireJulien#FireMarcBergevin Burn Geoff Molson in effigy! #worstmanagementstaffever

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    Default Re: GDT: Game #18 | Sabres vs. Canadiens | Nov. 11, 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by CH1 View Post
    Sure, you need a solid goalie to make a run. But you don't have to pay them over $10M. Top line pivots/d-men never come cheap.
    You need a reliable goalie who doesn't shit the bed when it matters . Murray was in diapers who was good enough to help win 2 titles , but he isn't a franchise goalie.

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    Default Re: GDT: Game #18 | Sabres vs. Canadiens | Nov. 11, 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolex View Post
    Outside of his lone Vezina/Hart season, Price has won jack shit in his career in the NHL.....

    If anything, he will go down as the best regular season goalie of his generation.....him, Max, and Pleks truly deserve each others.....
    Agreed , and if you can't win shit with him at fair money under 30 , how do you expect to win with him injury prone and locked up til 39 at stupid money. This will be one of the worst deals in the NHL at some point .

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    Default Re: GDT: Game #18 | Sabres vs. Canadiens | Nov. 11, 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by Altair View Post
    If crawford, a non vezina winning goalie is a franchise goalie, every goalie is a franchise goalie.
    Roy was the last player to truly carry a team on his back in the last 25 years. Others were solid except Thomas who might of been Boston's MVP alongside Krejci.

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    LeAdminie legoalie's Avatar
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    Default Re: GDT: Game #18 | Sabres vs. Canadiens | Nov. 11, 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by GEEMAN View Post
    You need a reliable goalie who doesn't shit the bed when it matters . Murray was in diapers who was good enough to help win 2 titles , but he isn't a franchise goalie.
    why is that? were Dryden and Roy in diapers too when they won the Cup as a rookie?

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    LeAdminie legoalie's Avatar
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    Default Re: GDT: Game #18 | Sabres vs. Canadiens | Nov. 11, 2017

    back to the game, i was at the Sabres and Minny games, Morrow makes me very nervous when he is out there,

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    1st Liner Purple Haze's Avatar
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    Default Re: GDT: Game #18 | Sabres vs. Canadiens | Nov. 11, 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by Habs-25 View Post
    Depend how you define a franchise goalie, Neimi won, Crawford won the cup few times and as far as i know, no one consider him at the same level as Price, Ludq, Quick, etc. Ducks won with Giguere and Bryzgalov, Boston won with Thomas, Pens won with Murray. None have the same status as the goalies i have mentioned(or at least not yet), bottom line is these days there are many decent goalies, and on top of that, any goalie can get hot and take you far, but to exactly answer your question, spending 11 millions on goalies is just stupid, it doesn't guaranty you anything, you can be wise, spend 4-5 millions on some very good goalies and spend the rest of money somewhere else(C or top defenders).

    I have no issue with Price at around 6 millions for the next 6 years maximum, but 11 millions on 8 years it is just way overpaid and too long! WAY TOO LONG!!

    Crawford is a very good goalie.
    2 Jennings trophies.
    And he outplayed “Vezina Holtby” at the World Cup last year.

    And JS Giguere is not considered in the same categorie as Price ?
    What happened to PLAYOFFS > Everything else ...?
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    Last edited by Purple Haze; 11-14-2017 at 10:59 AM.

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    Legend Sal_Butera's Avatar
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    Default GDT: Game #18 | Sabres vs. Canadiens | Nov. 11, 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by legoalie View Post
    why is that? were Dryden and Roy in diapers too when they won the Cup as a rookie?

    CAREER HIGHLIGHTS
    SEASONAWARDS BY SEASON
    2010-2011U17 WHC Gold Medal
    2011-2012CHL Top Prospects Game
    U18 WJC Bronze Medal
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    2012-2013CHL Goaltender of the Week (Jan. 13)
    2013-2014OHL Second All-Star Team
    2014-2015AHL All-Rookie Team
    AHL Best GAA (1.58)
    AHL Best Goaltender (Baz Bastien Memorial Award)
    AHL Best Goaltending Duo (Harry Holmes Memorial Award)
    AHL Best SVS% (.941)
    AHL First All-Star Team
    AHL Goaltender of the Month (February)
    AHL Goaltender of the Month (March)
    AHL Player of the Week (Feb. 8)
    AHL Player of the Week (Mar. 8)
    AHL Rookie of the Year (Red Garrett Memorial Award)
    2015-2016AHL All-Star Game
    AHL Second All-Star Team
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    - AHL Best GAA 14/15
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    - OHL Second All-Star Team 13/14
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    The point being made LG is the game has changed, for better or worse. No goalie regardless of how good they are can “carry a team” anymore, size & speed of players and velocity of shots with the one piece sticks put every goalie at a disadvantage add to it the enforcement of stick infractions (I.e Dman being curtailed from using their stick to force opposing players to the outside) has made it near impossible for goalies to be “the dominant factor” in a game. One need only look at how all the top goalies in the league are struggling - statistically speaking.

    If goalies are now disadvantaged by the system vs advantaged pre-2012 (especially pre-2004) lockout does paying one approximately 15% of the team’s cap space an exercise in futility?

    And yes I’ve always believed in Prices pedigree, but the game has fundamentally changed - unless like 05-06 refs change their methodology in the 2nd half leading into the playoffs.


    “We haven’t reached the ultimate, of where you walk into the building and you can sort of smell victory. But we’re a step closer to that this year than we were last year.”


    “So now the pressure’s on to replicate.”
    - Geoff Molson

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    1st Liner Purple Haze's Avatar
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    Default Re: GDT: Game #18 | Sabres vs. Canadiens | Nov. 11, 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by Sal_Butera View Post
    If goalies are now disadvantaged by the system vs advantaged pre-2004 lockout does paying one approximately 15% of the team’s cap space an exercise in futility?

    And yes I’ve always believed in Prices pedigree, but the game has fundamentally changed.
    Price’s contract if awful and will likely be a problem in the years to come, but the question about us being better with Lingren at a cheaper cap hit is futile for the PRESENT, as we already have a lot of cap space for this year and Price’s contract is not a problem for this team today.

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    Legend GrandWazoo's Avatar
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    Default Re: GDT: Game #18 | Sabres vs. Canadiens | Nov. 11, 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by Altair View Post
    If crawford, a non vezina winning goalie is a franchise goalie, every goalie is a franchise goalie.
    That's like saying Tavares isn't a franchise center because he never won a scoring title. Having a Vezina only means you had one exceptionally good season. His career numbers are as good as anybody in the league.

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    Default Re: GDT: Game #18 | Sabres vs. Canadiens | Nov. 11, 2017

    I guess it depends on where you set the line for "franchise goalie." I'd say top 5 in the league. After that there are 5 "good" goalies, 10 "average" goalies and the rest are below average to bad.

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    Default Re: GDT: Game #18 | Sabres vs. Canadiens | Nov. 11, 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by GEEMAN View Post
    Roy was the last player to truly carry a team on his back in the last 25 years. Others were solid except Thomas who might of been Boston's MVP alongside Krejci.
    Thomas had the single greatest season a goalie ever had when he won the cup. Still hate him though.

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    Legend WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou's Avatar
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    Default Re: GDT: Game #18 | Sabres vs. Canadiens | Nov. 11, 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by legoalie View Post
    Anti would be an exception, why would the Hawks not keep him ? instead they went with Crawford.. Osgood is a franchise goalie imo for the reasons you state.. so 1 out of 10...in a decade, pretty low percentage ... yea lets build that way...
    No, Niemi is the rule of the past decade, not the exception. Goalie-dependent teams went extinct with the dead puck and oversized goalie equipment era. Brodeur's Devils were the last goalie-dependent team to win it all. Nowadays all you need is a goalie who gets hot at the right time. Even then, how hot do you have to be in order to win games on teams with Crosby, Malkin, Toews or Kane? Scoring is king now. Goaltending is merely a necessary evil that you don't want to overspend on.
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    Legend Altair's Avatar
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    Default Re: GDT: Game #18 | Sabres vs. Canadiens | Nov. 11, 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by Habspatrol View Post
    I guess it depends on where you set the line for "franchise goalie." I'd say top 5 in the league. After that there are 5 "good" goalies, 10 "average" goalies and the rest are below average to bad.
    I think 5 is a good number.

    And the snowman doesn't make any top 5 list
    No one loves the warrior until the enemy is at the gate.

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