GDT: Game #18 | Sabres vs. Canadiens | Nov. 11, 2017

Habs-25 · Nov 13, 2017

legoalie said:
Name me a team in the last 10 years that won a cup without a franchise goalie ?

Depend how you define a franchise goalie, Neimi won, Crawford won the cup few times and as far as i know, no one consider him at the same level as Price, Ludq, Quick, etc. Ducks won with Giguere and Bryzgalov, Boston won with Thomas, Pens won with Murray. None have the same status as the goalies i have mentioned(or at least not yet), bottom line is these days there are many decent goalies, and on top of that, any goalie can get hot and take you far, but to exactly answer your question, spending 11 millions on goalies is just stupid, it doesn't guaranty you anything, you can be wise, spend 4-5 millions on some very good goalies and spend the rest of money somewhere else(C or top defenders).

I have no issue with Price at around 6 millions for the next 6 years maximum, but 11 millions on 8 years it is just way overpaid and too long! WAY TOO LONG!!

CH1 · Nov 13, 2017

Sure, you need a solid goalie to make a run. But you don't have to pay them over $10M. Top line pivots/d-men never come cheap.

GrandWazoo · Nov 13, 2017

legoalie said:
Anti would be an exception, why would the Hawks not keep him ? instead they went with Crawford.. Osgood is a franchise goalie imo for the reasons you state.. so 1 out of 10...in a decade, pretty low percentage ... yea lets build that way...

I'll disagree with Osgood, he wasn't a franchise goalie, which is why the Wings kept trying to upgrade on him and even went and got Hasek the year before and they share the duties that year. But he had a knack for elevating his game in the playoffs (is it what some people call clutch? I can't remember).

GrandWazoo · Nov 13, 2017

Habs-25 said:
Depend how you define a franchise goalie, Neimi won, Crawford won the cup few times and as far as i know, no one consider him at the as same level as Price, Ludq, Quick, etc. Ducks won with Giguere and Bryzgalov, Boston won with Thomas, Pens won with Murray. None have the same status as the goalies i have mentioned(or at least not yet), bottom line is these days there are many decent goalies, and on top of that, any goalie can get hot and take you far, but to exactly answer your question, spending 11 millions on goalies is just stupid, it doesn't guaranty you anything, you can be wise, spend 4-5 millions on some very good goalies and spend the rest of money somewhere else(C or top defenders).

I have no issue with Price at around 6 millions for the next 6 years maximum, but 11 millions on 8 years it is just way overpaid and too long! WAY TOO LONG!!

Crawford is criminally underrated, I have no problem considering him in the same category of Price, Lundqvist, Quick, etc.

Goalie A : .919%, 2.37GAA
Goalie B : .919%, 2.33GAA
Goalie C : .919%, 2.43GAA
Goalie D : .916%, 2.26GAA

Those are career numbers for Crawford and the 3 goalies named above.

Altair · Nov 13, 2017

If crawford, a non vezina winning goalie is a franchise goalie, every goalie is a franchise goalie.

Rolex · Nov 13, 2017

Altair said:
If crawford, a non vezina winning goalie is a franchise goalie, every goalie is a franchise goalie.

Outside of his lone Vezina/Hart season, Price has won jack shit in his career in the NHL.....

If anything, he will go down as the best regular season goalie of his generation.....him, Max, and Pleks truly deserve each others.....

Habsy · Nov 13, 2017

legoalie said:
You need a franchise goalie to win a cup. As a fan I don't care how long our goalie is signed for or at what price, all I care about is the next game and THIS season.. it's the GM's job to worry about that not mine.. we need a number 1 L d-man and another A center man and this club can do damage..

So business as usual then?

GEEMAN · Nov 14, 2017

CH1 said:
Sure, you need a solid goalie to make a run. But you don't have to pay them over $10M. Top line pivots/d-men never come cheap.

You need a reliable goalie who doesn't shit the bed when it matters . Murray was in diapers who was good enough to help win 2 titles , but he isn't a franchise goalie.

GEEMAN · Nov 14, 2017

Rolex said:
Outside of his lone Vezina/Hart season, Price has won jack shit in his career in the NHL.....

If anything, he will go down as the best regular season goalie of his generation.....him, Max, and Pleks truly deserve each others.....

Agreed , and if you can't win shit with him at fair money under 30 , how do you expect to win with him injury prone and locked up til 39 at stupid money. This will be one of the worst deals in the NHL at some point .

GEEMAN · Nov 14, 2017

Altair said:
If crawford, a non vezina winning goalie is a franchise goalie, every goalie is a franchise goalie.

Roy was the last player to truly carry a team on his back in the last 25 years. Others were solid except Thomas who might of been Boston's MVP alongside Krejci.

legoalie · Nov 14, 2017

GEEMAN said:
You need a reliable goalie who doesn't shit the bed when it matters . Murray was in diapers who was good enough to help win 2 titles , but he isn't a franchise goalie.

why is that? were Dryden and Roy in diapers too when they won the Cup as a rookie?

CAREER HIGHLIGHTS
SEASON AWARDS BY SEASON
2010-2011 U17 WHC Gold Medal
2011-2012 CHL Top Prospects Game
U18 WJC Bronze Medal
U18 WJC Top 3 Player on Team
2012-2013 CHL Goaltender of the Week (Jan. 13)
2013-2014 OHL Second All-Star Team
2014-2015 AHL All-Rookie Team
AHL Best GAA (1.58)
AHL Best Goaltender (Baz Bastien Memorial Award)
AHL Best Goaltending Duo (Harry Holmes Memorial Award)
AHL Best SVS% (.941)
AHL First All-Star Team
AHL Goaltender of the Month (February)
AHL Goaltender of the Month (March)
AHL Player of the Week (Feb. 8)
AHL Player of the Week (Mar. 8)
AHL Rookie of the Year (Red Garrett Memorial Award)
2015-2016 AHL All-Star Game
AHL Second All-Star Team
NHL Stanley Cup Champion
2016-2017 NHL All-Rookie Team
NHL Stanley Cup Champion
AWARDS BY LEAGUE
- AHL All-Rookie Team 14/15
- AHL All-Star Game 15/16
- AHL Best GAA 14/15
- AHL Best Goaltender (Baz Bastien Memorial Award) 14/15
- AHL Best Goaltending Duo (Harry Holmes Memorial Award) 14/15
- AHL Best SVS% 14/15
- AHL First All-Star Team 14/15
- AHL Goaltender of the Month 14/15, 14/15
- AHL Player of the Week 14/15, 14/15
- AHL Rookie of the Year (Red Garrett Memorial Award) 14/15
- AHL Second All-Star Team 15/16
- CHL Goaltender of the Week 12/13
- CHL Top Prospects Game 11/12
- NHL All-Rookie Team 16/17
- NHL Stanley Cup Champion 16/17, 15/16
- OHL Second All-Star Team 13/14
- U17 WHC Gold Medal 10/11
- U18 WJC Bronze Medal 11/12
- U18 WJC Top 3 Player on Team 11/12

legoalie · Nov 14, 2017

back to the game, i was at the Sabres and Minny games, Morrow makes me very nervous when he is out there,

Thunder · Nov 14, 2017

Habs-25 said:
Depend how you define a franchise goalie, Neimi won, Crawford won the cup few times and as far as i know, no one consider him at the same level as Price, Ludq, Quick, etc. Ducks won with Giguere and Bryzgalov, Boston won with Thomas, Pens won with Murray. None have the same status as the goalies i have mentioned(or at least not yet), bottom line is these days there are many decent goalies, and on top of that, any goalie can get hot and take you far, but to exactly answer your question, spending 11 millions on goalies is just stupid, it doesn't guaranty you anything, you can be wise, spend 4-5 millions on some very good goalies and spend the rest of money somewhere else(C or top defenders).

I have no issue with Price at around 6 millions for the next 6 years maximum, but 11 millions on 8 years it is just way overpaid and too long! WAY TOO LONG!!

Crawford is a very good goalie.
2 Jennings trophies.
And he outplayed “Vezina Holtby” at the World Cup last year.

And JS Giguere is not considered in the same categorie as Price ?
What happened to PLAYOFFS > Everything else ...?
#ConnSmythe

Sal_Butera · Nov 14, 2017

legoalie said:
why is that? were Dryden and Roy in diapers too when they won the Cup as a rookie?

CAREER HIGHLIGHTS
SEASONAWARDS BY SEASON
2010-2011U17 WHC Gold Medal
2011-2012CHL Top Prospects Game
U18 WJC Bronze Medal
U18 WJC Top 3 Player on Team
2012-2013CHL Goaltender of the Week (Jan. 13)
2013-2014OHL Second All-Star Team
2014-2015AHL All-Rookie Team
AHL Best GAA (1.58)
AHL Best Goaltender (Baz Bastien Memorial Award)
AHL Best Goaltending Duo (Harry Holmes Memorial Award)
AHL Best SVS% (.941)
AHL First All-Star Team
AHL Goaltender of the Month (February)
AHL Goaltender of the Month (March)
AHL Player of the Week (Feb. 8)
AHL Player of the Week (Mar. 8)
AHL Rookie of the Year (Red Garrett Memorial Award)
2015-2016AHL All-Star Game
AHL Second All-Star Team
NHL Stanley Cup Champion
2016-2017NHL All-Rookie Team
NHL Stanley Cup Champion
AWARDS BY LEAGUE
- AHL All-Rookie Team 14/15
- AHL All-Star Game 15/16
- AHL Best GAA 14/15
- AHL Best Goaltender (Baz Bastien Memorial Award) 14/15
- AHL Best Goaltending Duo (Harry Holmes Memorial Award) 14/15
- AHL Best SVS% 14/15
- AHL First All-Star Team 14/15
- AHL Goaltender of the Month 14/15, 14/15
- AHL Player of the Week 14/15, 14/15
- AHL Rookie of the Year (Red Garrett Memorial Award) 14/15
- AHL Second All-Star Team 15/16
- CHL Goaltender of the Week 12/13
- CHL Top Prospects Game 11/12
- NHL All-Rookie Team 16/17
- NHL Stanley Cup Champion 16/17, 15/16
- OHL Second All-Star Team 13/14
- U17 WHC Gold Medal 10/11
- U18 WJC Bronze Medal 11/12
- U18 WJC Top 3 Player on Team 11/12

The point being made LG is the game has changed, for better or worse. No goalie regardless of how good they are can “carry a team” anymore, size & speed of players and velocity of shots with the one piece sticks put every goalie at a disadvantage add to it the enforcement of stick infractions (I.e Dman being curtailed from using their stick to force opposing players to the outside) has made it near impossible for goalies to be “the dominant factor” in a game. One need only look at how all the top goalies in the league are struggling - statistically speaking.

If goalies are now disadvantaged by the system vs advantaged pre-2012 (especially pre-2004) lockout does paying one approximately 15% of the team’s cap space an exercise in futility?

And yes I’ve always believed in Prices pedigree, but the game has fundamentally changed - unless like 05-06 refs change their methodology in the 2nd half leading into the playoffs.

Thunder · Nov 14, 2017

Sal_Butera said:
If goalies are now disadvantaged by the system vs advantaged pre-2004 lockout does paying one approximately 15% of the team’s cap space an exercise in futility?

And yes I’ve always believed in Prices pedigree, but the game has fundamentally changed.

Price’s contract if awful and will likely be a problem in the years to come, but the question about us being better with Lingren at a cheaper cap hit is futile for the PRESENT, as we already have a lot of cap space for this year and Price’s contract is not a problem for this team today.

GrandWazoo · Nov 14, 2017

Altair said:
If crawford, a non vezina winning goalie is a franchise goalie, every goalie is a franchise goalie.

That's like saying Tavares isn't a franchise center because he never won a scoring title. Having a Vezina only means you had one exceptionally good season. His career numbers are as good as anybody in the league.

Habspatrol · Nov 14, 2017

I guess it depends on where you set the line for "franchise goalie." I'd say top 5 in the league. After that there are 5 "good" goalies, 10 "average" goalies and the rest are below average to bad.

worm · Nov 14, 2017

GEEMAN said:
Roy was the last player to truly carry a team on his back in the last 25 years. Others were solid except Thomas who might of been Boston's MVP alongside Krejci.

Thomas had the single greatest season a goalie ever had when he won the cup. Still hate him though.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou · Nov 14, 2017

legoalie said:
Anti would be an exception, why would the Hawks not keep him ? instead they went with Crawford.. Osgood is a franchise goalie imo for the reasons you state.. so 1 out of 10...in a decade, pretty low percentage ... yea lets build that way...

No, Niemi is the rule of the past decade, not the exception. Goalie-dependent teams went extinct with the dead puck and oversized goalie equipment era. Brodeur's Devils were the last goalie-dependent team to win it all. Nowadays all you need is a goalie who gets hot at the right time. Even then, how hot do you have to be in order to win games on teams with Crosby, Malkin, Toews or Kane? Scoring is king now. Goaltending is merely a necessary evil that you don't want to overspend on.

Altair · Nov 14, 2017

Habspatrol said:
I guess it depends on where you set the line for "franchise goalie." I'd say top 5 in the league. After that there are 5 "good" goalies, 10 "average" goalies and the rest are below average to bad.

I think 5 is a good number.

And the snowman doesn't make any top 5 list

GDT: Game #18 | Sabres vs. Canadiens | Nov. 11, 2017

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