View Poll Results: Do you want Johnny Holmes Banned from the board?

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  • Yes

    25 52.08%
  • No

    23 47.92%
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Thread: Democratic call to action - The Poll - Should Forumice ban Johnny Holmes for espousing frequent prejudicial and inappropriate views in the politics and news threads.

  1. #21
    Wrong Thinker Extraordinaire Habsy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Democratic call to action - The Poll - Should Forumice ban Johnny Holmes for espo

    The argument is that those that don't want him banned are condoning his opinions.

    I personally don't agree with that as a libertarian but it is basically what's being argued.

    I voted yes because I really haven't seen him contribute more than just trolling. Perhaps I'm wrong?
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  2. #22
    1st Liner fergy57's Avatar
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    Default Re: Democratic call to action - The Poll - Should Forumice ban Johnny Holmes for espo

    Voted no. Don't share his opinions.
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  3. #23
    Legend UWHabs's Avatar
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    Default Re: Democratic call to action - The Poll - Should Forumice ban Johnny Holmes for espo

    Quote Originally Posted by Habsy View Post
    The argument is that those that don't want him banned are condoning his opinions.

    I personally don't agree with that as a libertarian but it is basically what's being argued.

    I voted yes because I really haven't seen him contribute more than just trolling. Perhaps I'm wrong?
    Yeah, I don't have a problem with people voting to not ban him. I mean, I hate how the politics thread gets derailed constantly, and even I waffled on my vote.

    To me it comes down to whether the boards are a better place with or without him. And when you look through, the way everything gets derailed when he's around means we really can't have any reasoned discussion going on. He's either the world's greatest troll, or the views that he has make Trump look like a Liberal.

    And I think if he contributed meaningfully in other areas of the boards, we could live with it. So as much as BKerr is basically on the opposite end of the spectrum and will more often than not be just as bad (not in terms of crazy viewpoints but about derailing the conversation), at least he has some meaningful commentary on hockey in other areas that he contributes. I don't see that from Johnny.

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Democratic call to action - The Poll - Should Forumice ban Johnny Holmes for espo

    Quote Originally Posted by Habsy View Post
    The argument is that those that don't want him banned are condoning his opinions.

    I personally don't agree with that as a libertarian but it is basically what's being argued.

    I voted yes because I really haven't seen him contribute more than just trolling. Perhaps I'm wrong?
    In my view, most of the Sens posters troll. That’s just what they do. But seems like it’s from a place of not understanding rather than intentionally trying to irk. Or at least it’s a combination of both.

    On this current issue, I’m not seeing him actively defend anything.

  5. #25
    Wrong Thinker Extraordinaire Habsy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Democratic call to action - The Poll - Should Forumice ban Johnny Holmes for espo

    This issue has nothing to do with BKerr though. People with issues with him is a different topic altogether and shouldn't be conflated with this.
    Last edited by Habsy; 11-11-2017 at 01:24 PM.
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  6. #26
    Legend UWHabs's Avatar
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    Default Re: Democratic call to action - The Poll - Should Forumice ban Johnny Holmes for espo

    Quote Originally Posted by LeafOfFaith View Post
    In my view, most of the Sens posters troll. That’s just what they do. But seems like it’s from a place of not understanding rather than intentionally trying to irk. Or at least it’s a combination of both.

    On this current issue, I’m not seeing him actively defend anything.
    It's not this one issue alone, though. So yeah, he's walking on a ledge for this issue, but when you combine it with the outright racism that he goes on about, and the fact that he doesn't contribute anything to the boards, it shouldn't be that tough of a decision.

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Democratic call to action - The Poll - Should Forumice ban Johnny Holmes for espo

    Quote Originally Posted by UWHabs View Post
    It's not this one issue alone, though. So yeah, he's walking on a ledge for this issue, but when you combine it with the outright racism that he goes on about, and the fact that he doesn't contribute anything to the boards, it shouldn't be that tough of a decision.
    Again, feel free to quote any racist post to back that up.

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Democratic call to action - The Poll - Should Forumice ban Johnny Holmes for espo

    Banning him gives him too much importance, as does this thread.

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Democratic call to action - The Poll - Should Forumice ban Johnny Holmes for espo

    That’s the ironing.

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Democratic call to action - The Poll - Should Forumice ban Johnny Holmes for espo

    No

  11. #31
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    Default Re: Democratic call to action - The Poll - Should Forumice ban Johnny Holmes for espo

    So Trump.

  12. #32
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    Default Re: Democratic call to action - The Poll - Should Forumice ban Johnny Holmes for espo

    These politics/news thread cause problems in the hockey forums. Back in the HB days, the separate forums for this kind of talk was great and worked really well. Consider creating a forum for these types of discussions. If someone does the type of things you're claiming JH did, ban or suspend them from the forum.

    My view on this type of talk (which is likely unpopular) is to let it go and allow people with those views to hear the criticisms of them. Keep them off the hockey threads, however. Repressing racist, sexist or whatever type of talk does nothing to help the consequences of it. It likely even gives them more strength.
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  13. #33
    Wrong Thinker Extraordinaire Habsy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Democratic call to action - The Poll - Should Forumice ban Johnny Holmes for espo

    So your suggestion for compromise is to create a politics forum that people can be banned off leaving the hockey portion available? That could work.
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  14. #34
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    Default Re: Democratic call to action - The Poll - Should Forumice ban Johnny Holmes for espo

    Quote Originally Posted by Habsy View Post
    So your suggestion for compromise is to create a politics forum that people can be banned off leaving the hockey portion available? That could work.
    Yep. I haven't seen Johnny do any of this in the hockey threads. If he's out of line in the politics threads, give him a vacation or something.

    Banning someone from the site for their views, to my mind, just does nothing but entrench those views. Further, it just creates an echo chamber where views that are considered distasteful or harmful get pushed out of sight. Better to understand how people with views that you find repugnant think rather than avoid it.
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  15. #35
    Leafs Moderator SundinsTooth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Democratic call to action - The Poll - Should Forumice ban Johnny Holmes for espo

    Quote Originally Posted by BeLeafer View Post
    Yep. I haven't seen Johnny do any of this in the hockey threads. If he's out of line in the politics threads, give him a vacation or something.

    Banning someone from the site for their views, to my mind, just does nothing but entrench those views. Further, it just creates an echo chamber where views that are considered distasteful or harmful get pushed out of sight. Better to understand how people with views that you find repugnant think rather than avoid it.
    How I feel is similar but at this point a good portion of the users are equating this type of hands off moderating to being actively supporting those views. It's a no win for us.

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  16. #36
    Legend BKerr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Democratic call to action - The Poll - Should Forumice ban Johnny Holmes for espo

    Hands off moderating is editing the people who call out Johnny for defending pedophiles and posting racist crap.... but never editing Johnny.

    And then you wonder why it's said that even if you say you don't agree with him, the way you allow him to put them on the board with no repercussions just condones his views.
    If you are going to continue to allow people to post vile racist crap, and defend pedophilia on the site, then I'm done posting here.... if you really want to find me... you know where to look.

  17. #37
    Legend axlsalinger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Democratic call to action - The Poll - Should Forumice ban Johnny Holmes for espo

    This is a tough one.

    For the record, I voted no. I am very much in favour of hands-off moderating.

    And in times like these, there is value in hearing what the "other side" is saying, and being able to debate the issues. Of course, Johnny spends most of his time trolling rather than debating, but the point still stands.

    While I don't agree with his points on the recent "pedo" discussion, I do see what he was arguing, and no it was not a full-throated defense of pedophilia. And if you think what a guy trolling a hockey board says is bad, understand that he is parroting the actual arguments of U.S. senators and members of the House of Representatives.

    Of course, there is a disturbingly large amount of people in the United States who are fine with white supremacy, fascism, and postponing elections in the name of Trump. It's literally batshit crazy, but you can't "win" an argument, as much as it is possible to win, by shouting down all discussion of any controversial issue. It is unfortunate that Johnny is incapable of actually debating an issue without trolling, but at the same time he does add an alternate viewpoint and entertainment value to the politics thread.

    And also, no to a separate section for politics. Same thing would have happened.

    At the end of the day, if HL (& BKerr) are okay with editing a couple of the offensive posts in question, that'd be a fine solution. But if it means losing them from the board entirely, then I guess we don't have a choice. They're far more valuable here than Johnny.
    Last edited by axlsalinger; 11-11-2017 at 03:07 PM.
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  18. #38
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    Default Re: Democratic call to action - The Poll - Should Forumice ban Johnny Holmes for espo

    Quote Originally Posted by BKerr View Post
    Hands off moderating is editing the people who call out Johnny for defending pedophiles and posting racist crap.... but never editing Johnny.

    And then you wonder why it's said that even if you say you don't agree with him, the way you allow him to put them on the board with no repercussions just condones his views.
    How old are you?

  19. #39
    Wrong Thinker Extraordinaire Habsy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Democratic call to action - The Poll - Should Forumice ban Johnny Holmes for espo

    Quote Originally Posted by axlsalinger View Post
    This is a tough one.

    For the record, I voted no. I am very much in favour of hands-off moderating.

    And in times like these, there is value in hearing what the "other side" is saying, and being able to debate the issues. Of course, Johnny spends most of his time trolling rather than debating, but the point still stands.

    While I don't agree with his points on the recent "pedo" discussion, I do see what he was arguing, and no it was not a full-throated defense of pedophilia. And if you think what a guy trolling a hockey board says is bad, understand that he is parroting the actual arguments of U.S. senators and members of the House of Representatives.

    Of course, there is a disturbingly large amount of people in the United States who are fine with white supremacy, fascism, and postponing elections in the name of Trump. It's literally batshit crazy, but you can't "win" an argument, as much as it is possible to win, by shouting down all discussion of any controversial issue. It is unfortunate that Johnny is incapable of actually debating an issue without trolling, but at the same time he does add an alternate viewpoint and entertainment value to the politics thread.

    And also, no to a separate section for politics. Same thing would have happened.

    At the end of the day, if HL (& BKerr) are okay with editing a couple of the offensive posts in question, that'd be a fine solution. But if it means losing them from the board entirely, then I guess we don't have a choice. They're far more valuable here than Johnny.
    That's extortion. I won't play that game and won't succumb to a mob mentality.

    This is a democratic discussion and the majority will rule.
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  20. #40
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    Default Re: Democratic call to action - The Poll - Should Forumice ban Johnny Holmes for espo

    I’m excited to see how this turns out.

    Hoping Holmes stays just to see if Kerr will show us how important his ideals are and leave.

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