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Thread: Go all the way to Hire Steve Yzerman

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    Default Go all the way to Hire Steve Yzerman

    Quote Originally Posted by DonKay View Post
    No GM is perfect but I look at two key factors that says a lot about an organization and how the GM runs his ship

    Player development and drafting....no one has done that better than TB the last five years.

    Their AHL team contends with their youth and they graduate players consistently.

    I think Yzerman has put together a good structure.
    All I’m saying is there’s a normalization factor when talking about execution in the Mtl market - and NO the Leafs market is nothing like Mtl’s because of the language issue (specifically baggage the Francophone media brings with it) which is huge in the eyes of many players & management (reotential GMs).

    As for Stevie Y drafting & development, other than Point & Koekkeok, his team is made up of players drafted pre-2012. He hit the grandslam in 2010 & 2011 by going after smallish skilled players when the rest of the league was looking for size - Johnson, Kucherov, Namestnikov, Palat were all 2010 & 2011 - then all of a sudden the 2012 lockout forced rule changes favoring smaller / skilled players. The fact TBay made out like bandits, Stevie Y no doubt deserves credit for - it’s better to be lucky than good...

    Also re: drafting & development, its why I referenced Dan Duquette, he was so far ahead of every GM in MLB in 1991, he was ripping teams off in deals for young talent and knowing his people in place would develop them flawlessly on the fly.

    Dubas may (I stress MAY) be the closest thing in the NHL, but it’d be yet another rookie GM....Habs have had enough of those - probability of failure outweighs that of success in the Mtl market
    Last edited by Sal_Butera; 11-21-2017 at 11:38 AM.


    “We haven’t reached the ultimate, of where you walk into the building and you can sort of smell victory. But we’re a step closer to that this year than we were last year.”


    “So now the pressure’s on to replicate.”
    - Geoff Molson

  2. #22
    Canadiens Moderator DonKay's Avatar
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    Default Re: Go all the way to Hire Steve Yzerman

    Quote Originally Posted by Sal_Butera View Post
    All I’m saying is there’s a normalization factor when talking about execution in the Mtl market - and NO the Leafs market is nothing like Mtl’s because of the language issue (specifically baggage the Francophone media brings with it) which is huge in the eyes of many players & management (reotential GMs).

    As for Stevie Y drafting & development, other than Point & Koekkeok, his team is made up of players drafted pre-2012. He hit the grandslam in 2010 & 2011 by going after smallish skilled players when the rest of the league was looking for size - Johnson, Kucherov, Namestnikov, Palat were all 2010 & 2011 - then all of a sudden the 2012 lockout forced rule changes favoring smaller / skilled players. The fact TBay made out like bandits, Stevie Y no doubt deserves credit for - it’s better to be lucky than good...

    Also re: drafting & development, its why I referenced Dan Duquette, he was so far ahead of every GM in MLB in 1991, he was ripping teams off in deals for young talent and knowing his people in place would develop them flawlessly on the fly.

    Dubas may (I stress MAY) be the closest thing in the NHL, but it’d be yet another rookie GM....Habs have had enough of those - probability of failure outweighs that of success in the Mtl market
    Well let's be honest drafting is one thing and player development is another and like it or not the list of players on TB's current roster that came through the organization under Yzermans watch is impressive.

    Kucherov, Namesnikov, Point, Killorn, Johnson, Palat, Gourde...with Stamkos these are TB developed players
    Go Habs Go!

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    Default Re: Go all the way to Hire Steve Yzerman

    Quote Originally Posted by Krustchev View Post
    Seriously? Not smart.
    Weren't we all laughing at him a couple if years ago?
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    Default Re: Go all the way to Hire Steve Yzerman

    Quote Originally Posted by DonKay View Post
    Well let's be honest drafting is one thing and player development is another and like it or not the list of players on TB's current roster that came through the organization under Yzermans watch is impressive.

    Kucherov, Namesnikov, Point, Killorn, Johnson, Palat, Gourde...with Stamkos these are TB developed players
    Let’s also be honest developing players in a market like TBay who has one beat reporter and 5-fans attending practice is quite different than Mtl, where the Habs draw more fans to a regular practice than some NHL teams for a scheduled game...


    “We haven’t reached the ultimate, of where you walk into the building and you can sort of smell victory. But we’re a step closer to that this year than we were last year.”


    “So now the pressure’s on to replicate.”
    - Geoff Molson

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    Canadiens Moderator DonKay's Avatar
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    Default Re: Go all the way to Hire Steve Yzerman

    Quote Originally Posted by Sal_Butera View Post
    Let’s also be honest developing players in a market like TBay who has one beat reporter and 5-fans attending practice is quite different than Mtl, where the Habs draw more fans to a regular practice than some NHL teams for a scheduled game...
    That to me is a weak excuse.

    You're letting MB off the hook for the poor results from the AHL and its development program.
    Go Habs Go!

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    Default Re: Go all the way to Hire Steve Yzerman

    Quote Originally Posted by Sal_Butera View Post
    Let’s also be honest developing players in a market like TBay who has one beat reporter and 5-fans attending practice is quite different than Mtl, where the Habs draw more fans to a regular practice than some NHL teams for a scheduled game...
    Except we're talking about developing prospects in Saint-Johns or Hamilton....not Montreal....
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    Default Re: Go all the way to Hire Steve Yzerman

    Leaving aside the fact that the Habs wouldn't even be able to talk to anyone currently under contract to another team, this dream will never happen for a very mundane reason: because French.

    Unless or until the Habs do away with voluntarily tying one hand behind their back by only hiring francophones, this cycle of crapulence will never end. If you want to be the best, you need to hire the best, not merely the best francophone. Bergy may have been the best francophone GM available when he was hired, but I doubt that he was the best GM of any and all language groups available. It's pretty simple: if the best candidate also happens to speak French, it's a bonus. But the ability to speak French should never be the #1 criteria. Frank Selke and Sam Pollock didn't speak French. They did okay.

    I had no problem with the Julien hire because A) Therrien needed to go, and B) Julien had just become available, wouldn't remain available for long, and was the best available candidate irrespective of language. But if he hadn't been available and someone else, say, Ken Hitchcock, were, I'll bet that the Habs would have just kept Therrien.

    And then we wonder why this team never wins anything.
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    Legend Sal_Butera's Avatar
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    Default Go all the way to Hire Steve Yzerman

    Quote Originally Posted by DonKay View Post
    That to me is a weak excuse.

    You're letting MB off the hook for the poor results from the AHL and its development program.
    It’s not an excuse, and my posts are in no way related to MB.

    First off have to accept Mtl Market brings with it expectation pressure, notoriety & lack of patience like no other market, for players & prospects, but have to find a way to overcome those obstacles.

    Habs more than anything else desperately need some out of the box thinking - INNOVATION not simply apply NHL best practices that work in other markets and expect that will guarantee success here.

    Habs have tried hiring former legends - failure

    Habs have tried hiring from outside / career hockey guy from a “winning org” - seemingly a failure

    It’s time to go triple Lindy

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rDMMYT3vkTk
    Last edited by Sal_Butera; 11-21-2017 at 02:38 PM.


    “We haven’t reached the ultimate, of where you walk into the building and you can sort of smell victory. But we’re a step closer to that this year than we were last year.”


    “So now the pressure’s on to replicate.”
    - Geoff Molson

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    Canadiens & 'News & Views' Moderator TheCountofMonteCristo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Go all the way to Hire Steve Yzerman

    In fairness, we had an English GM two GMs ago in Bob Gainey. The coach seems to have the requirement he/she/ze be de chez nous, but the GM does not have the same requirement.

    Last time it was between Baldy and Bozovin, not like we took the worst candidate.
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    Canadiens Moderator Rolex's Avatar
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    Default Re: Go all the way to Hire Steve Yzerman

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCountofMonteCristo View Post
    In fairness, we had an English GM two GMs ago in Bob Gainey. The coach seems to have the requirement he/she/ze be de chez nous, but the GM does not have the same requirement.

    Last time it was between Baldy and Bozovin, not like we took the worst candidate.
    It's puzzling that it came down to those 2....I'm sure much more qualified candidates were dropped from the race...
    "Love one another as I have loved you"... Jesus-Christ our Holy Lord and Savior Forever Amen and Alleluia !!!

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    Default Re: Go all the way to Hire Steve Yzerman

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolex View Post
    It's puzzling that it came down to those 2....I'm sure much more qualified candidates were dropped from the race...
    I have no idea who applied. I remember we were interested in Nill but he chose Dallas.
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    Default Re: Go all the way to Hire Steve Yzerman



    “We haven’t reached the ultimate, of where you walk into the building and you can sort of smell victory. But we’re a step closer to that this year than we were last year.”


    “So now the pressure’s on to replicate.”
    - Geoff Molson

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    Default Re: Go all the way to Hire Steve Yzerman

    Quote Originally Posted by Sal_Butera View Post
    It’s not an excuse, and my posts are in no way related to MB.

    First off have to accept Mtl Market brings with it expectation pressure, notoriety & lack of patience like no other market, for players & prospects, but have to find a way to overcome those obstacles.

    Habs more than anything else desperately need some out of the box thinking - INNOVATION not simply apply NHL best practices that work in other markets and expect that will guarantee success here.

    Habs have tried hiring former legends - failure

    Habs have tried hiring from outside / career hockey guy from a “winning org” - seemingly a failure

    It’s time to go triple Lindy

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rDMMYT3vkTk
    Its been a failure because no one has been able to accept major change and patch jobs is all most teams are capable of doing to keep their jobs or possibly having an ownership group that is simply incompetent.

    You dont need some innovative guru in charge to figure out how we put together a team doesnt work and cant work .

    What top shelf strategist do you need to understand that Shaw , Petry and Alzner at nearly 15 mil is a waste of cap space and suckage .

    If you havent drafted and developed worth a hill of beans in nearly a decade one can conclude that this department needs to be turfed .

    With a weak non contending core what is putting support pieces and shuffling scrubs as UFA`s going to do ?

    No excuses why in 6 years we havent elevated any area ...on ice produce still cant compete.....drafting stinks.....development is non existent ......prospect pool is atrocious

    I understand our challenges but this is laughable now .

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    Default Go all the way to Hire Steve Yzerman

    Quote Originally Posted by GEEMAN View Post
    Its been a failure because no one has been able to accept major change and patch jobs is all most teams are capable of doing to keep their jobs or possibly having an ownership group that is simply incompetent.

    You dont need some innovative guru in charge to figure out how we put together a team doesnt work and cant work .

    What top shelf strategist do you need to understand that Shaw , Petry and Alzner at nearly 15 mil is a waste of cap space and suckage .

    If you havent drafted and developed worth a hill of beans in nearly a decade one can conclude that this department needs to be turfed .

    With a weak non contending core what is putting support pieces and shuffling scrubs as UFA`s going to do ?

    No excuses why in 6 years we havent elevated any area ...on ice produce still cant compete.....drafting stinks.....development is non existent ......prospect pool is atrocious

    I understand our challenges but this is laughable now .
    In no other NHL market will a reporter sneak onto a players personal property to get a photo after his wife has miscarried (Theodore), in no other market will a reporter sneak into a private hospital room to snap a pic of a player and team C post injury (Koivu), in no other market will “journalists” go on live radio & TV and speak of unproven rumors as fact (Reggie Tremblay vs Price & Mario vs Chucky).....absolutely yes the Habs need a strategy designed to adjust to a marketplace that is like none other in the NHL and protect/allow their players to develop while the vultures circle.

    As Krusty pointed out a long time ago, the Habs are Quebec’s biggest economy and many want their cut.

    And yes they also need a competent GM who has a vision and sticks to it.
    Last edited by Sal_Butera; 11-21-2017 at 09:20 PM.


    “We haven’t reached the ultimate, of where you walk into the building and you can sort of smell victory. But we’re a step closer to that this year than we were last year.”


    “So now the pressure’s on to replicate.”
    - Geoff Molson

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    Default Re: Go all the way to Hire Steve Yzerman

    Quote Originally Posted by Sal_Butera View Post
    In no other NHL market will a reporter sneak onto a players personal property to get a photo after his wife has miscarried (Theodore), in no other market will a reporter sneak into a private hospital room to snap a pic of a player and team C post injury (Koivu), in no other market will “journalists” go on live radio & TV and speak of unproven rumors as fact (Reggie Tremblay vs Price & Mario vs Chucky).....absolutely yes the Habs need a strategy designed to adjust to a marketplace that is like none other in the NHL and protect/allow their players to develop while the vultures circle.

    As Krusty pointed out a long time ago, the Habs are Quebec’s biggest economy.
    In no other market would Nero survive this long ......EXCUSES EXCUSES

    Half your battle is common sense . We are challenged but there are no cap or French issues hiring the elite draft/development team in the business .

    If this is our lifeline you dont let it drag 10 years with piss poor results.

    EXCUSES MUST STOP .....I dont mind losing or admitting you cant compete for a cup if your plan to execute or at least make some progress is evident.

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    Default Go all the way to Hire Steve Yzerman

    Quote Originally Posted by GEEMAN View Post
    In no other market would Nero survive this long ......EXCUSES EXCUSES
    What has Nill achieved, its been 5-years? What has Cheval-day-off achieved, 6-years? What has Snow achieved? How many years did Sather last? What has Armstrong achieved? Poile in 20-years as Preds GM with all the benefits in taxes + geographic advantages?
    Last edited by Sal_Butera; 11-21-2017 at 09:31 PM.


    “We haven’t reached the ultimate, of where you walk into the building and you can sort of smell victory. But we’re a step closer to that this year than we were last year.”


    “So now the pressure’s on to replicate.”
    - Geoff Molson

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    Default Re: Go all the way to Hire Steve Yzerman

    Quote Originally Posted by Sal_Butera View Post
    What has Nill achieved, its been 5-years? What has Cheval-day-off achieved, 6-years? What has Snow achieved? How many years did Sather last? What has Armstrong achieved? Poile in 20-years as Preds GM?
    Hold on .....this achieved stuff is a different debate .

    Bent nose in Winnipeg may not have not achieved anything but he didnt patch to futility like our clown did or has a putrid draft/development team like us

    Scheiffle , Connor , Ehlers , Morrisey , Laine , Trouba , (getting Wheeler ) is all I have to see and maybe Helly can finally be that goalie they needed .

    Whose top 6 do you want for the next 3 years ?

    He was patient and didnt panic spending 15 mil on those 3 clowns I mentioned .

    Nill stole Seguin .....we stole Byron

    The Blues have been a solid team for years and drafted well and made decent moves and at least were mentioned in the contender conversation .....how many years in the last 15 have we ever been in the conversation....NEVER .

    Rags like you said always find a way to get cap space or players joining them ....they went to the finals recently and parlayed a vet into a young building block in Mika who is a point a game player .

    What mistakes has Poile done the last 6 years ....excellent trades ....good drafting .....solid balanced roster and now a contender . Who cares if it took time progress was made in 6 years

    What the hell did we do ....we traded our stud chip for a 3 goal scorer who skates nice but is not even ranked in the top 100 in points and doesnt solve our C issue .

    We deal our only puck mover for another 1D 4 years older in a sideways move at best

    We ink an injured goalie to a cap busting mega deal that will be among the worst in hockey in a few years and may never play a full season again .

    We cant figure out WTF our 3rd overall pick is or what line to play for

    Then we bring back another retread fat pig we fired who thinks putting 27 on the fourth line on a putrid offensive team is the answer in the playoffs .

    Then he decides that Pleks and Byron can play D in 3/3 OT and stop the opposition hoping by the 2 minute mark maybe we can play some skilled guys.

    Other than finding some OK support pieces like Byron and Dano from other teams that arent good enough to play what has this regime accomplished in 6 years that absolutely makes you look forward to in the next 3-5 years

  18. #38
    Canadiens Moderator Rolex's Avatar
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    Default Re: Go all the way to Hire Steve Yzerman

    Quote Originally Posted by GEEMAN View Post
    Hold on .....this achieved stuff is a different debate .

    Bent nose in Winnipeg may not have not achieved anything but he didnt patch to futility like our clown did or has a putrid draft/development team like us

    Scheiffle , Connor , Ehlers , Morrisey , Laine , Trouba , (getting Wheeler ) is all I have to see and maybe Helly can finally be that goalie they needed .

    Whose top 6 do you want for the next 3 years ?

    He was patient and didnt panic spending 15 mil on those 3 clowns I mentioned .

    Nill stole Seguin .....we stole Byron

    The Blues have been a solid team for years and drafted well and made decent moves and at least were mentioned in the contender conversation .....how many years in the last 15 have we ever been in the conversation....NEVER .

    Rags like you said always find a way to get cap space or players joining them ....they went to the finals recently and parlayed a vet into a young building block in Mika who is a point a game player .

    What mistakes has Poile done the last 6 years ....excellent trades ....good drafting .....solid balanced roster and now a contender . Who cares if it took time progress was made in 6 years

    What the hell did we do ....we traded our stud chip for a 3 goal scorer who skates nice but is not even ranked in the top 100 in points and doesnt solve our C issue .

    We deal our only puck mover for another 1D 4 years older in a sideways move at best

    We ink an injured goalie to a cap busting mega deal that will be among the worst in hockey in a few years and may never play a full season again .

    We cant figure out WTF our 3rd overall pick is or what line to play for

    Then we bring back another retread fat pig we fired who thinks putting 27 on the fourth line on a putrid offensive team is the answer in the playoffs .

    Then he decides that Pleks and Byron can play D in 3/3 OT and stop the opposition hoping by the 2 minute mark maybe we can play some skilled guys.

    Other than finding some OK support pieces like Byron and Dano from other teams that arent good enough to play what has this regime accomplished in 6 years that absolutely makes you look forward to in the next 3-5 years
    Excellent post....
    "Love one another as I have loved you"... Jesus-Christ our Holy Lord and Savior Forever Amen and Alleluia !!!

  19. #39
    Legend Sal_Butera's Avatar
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    Default Re: Go all the way to Hire Steve Yzerman

    Quote Originally Posted by GEEMAN View Post
    Hold on .....this achieved stuff is a different debate .

    Bent nose in Winnipeg may not have not achieved anything but he didnt patch to futility like our clown did or has a putrid draft/development team like us

    Scheiffle , Connor , Ehlers , Morrisey , Laine , Trouba , (getting Wheeler ) is all I have to see and maybe Helly can finally be that goalie they needed .

    Whose top 6 do you want for the next 3 years ?

    He was patient and didnt panic spending 15 mil on those 3 clowns I mentioned .

    Nill stole Seguin .....we stole Byron

    The Blues have been a solid team for years and drafted well and made decent moves and at least were mentioned in the contender conversation .....how many years in the last 15 have we ever been in the conversation....NEVER .

    Rags like you said always find a way to get cap space or players joining them ....they went to the finals recently and parlayed a vet into a young building block in Mika who is a point a game player .

    What mistakes has Poile done the last 6 years ....excellent trades ....good drafting .....solid balanced roster and now a contender . Who cares if it took time progress was made in 6 years

    What the hell did we do ....we traded our stud chip for a 3 goal scorer who skates nice but is not even ranked in the top 100 in points and doesnt solve our C issue .

    We deal our only puck mover for another 1D 4 years older in a sideways move at best

    We ink an injured goalie to a cap busting mega deal that will be among the worst in hockey in a few years and may never play a full season again .

    We cant figure out WTF our 3rd overall pick is or what line to play for

    Then we bring back another retread fat pig we fired who thinks putting 27 on the fourth line on a putrid offensive team is the answer in the playoffs .

    Then he decides that Pleks and Byron can play D in 3/3 OT and stop the opposition hoping by the 2 minute mark maybe we can play some skilled guys.

    Other than finding some OK support pieces like Byron and Dano from other teams that arent good enough to play what has this regime accomplished in 6 years that absolutely makes you look forward to in the next 3-5 years
    Again go back to Jr PC introducing HIS freshly hired GM. Second sentence out of his mouth "mandate is to make the team playoff competitive immediately"....Nill, Cheval-day-off, Poile, Stevie Y etc.. we're not forced that mandate upon them.

    Really think if MB would've been given the gig when at the interview he answered "we need a rebuild" when asked "how will you make the team immediately competitive"?


    “We haven’t reached the ultimate, of where you walk into the building and you can sort of smell victory. But we’re a step closer to that this year than we were last year.”


    “So now the pressure’s on to replicate.”
    - Geoff Molson

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    Hall of Famer Exit716's Avatar
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    Default Re: Go all the way to Hire Steve Yzerman

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCountofMonteCristo View Post
    I have no idea who applied. I remember we were interested in Nill but he chose Dallas.
    Nill's wife has cancer and that was a major consideration why he decided to stay in Detroit and then move to Dallas.
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    @exit716 Your Twitter avatar features the world's happiest dog, I swear
    Nov 23, 9:13 PM via TweetDeck

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