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GDT MAR 21: Spring in the Air

zeke said:
we criticize every other player when they have bad games. but God forbid we criticize the goalie when he stinks.
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I’ve got no problem with criticism. I criticized him too.

But blaming him for the loss is what I take exception with. The whole team was utterly terrible from the Hedman goal onward. Putrid. So to lay it at the feet of Andersen when the winning goal was entirely on Rielly has the stench of scapegoating all over it. And it’s just wrong.
 
Jonathan Quick - .916 SV% - 2 cups
Corey Crawford - .919 SV% - 2 cups

Average-good goalies can get hot and help their team to a cup. Hell, add Murray .918 SV%, and you have the past what, 6 cups? Recently, the best regular season goalies don't win shit. No idea why....maybe their teams rely on them too much, I dunno. But it's the second-third tier of guys winning them.
 
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LeafOfFaith said:
I’ve got no problem with criticism. I criticized him too.

But blaming him for the loss is what I take exception with. The whole team was utterly terrible from the Hedman goal onward. Putrid. So to lay it at the feet of Andersen when the winning goal was entirely on Rielly has the stench of scapegoating all over it. And it’s just wrong.
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The Leafs outplayed one of the elite team's in hockey in their own barn, without our best player, but lost because the goalie let in 4 quick stoppable goals. This is what happened .

Sometimes goalies lose games.
 
Deckie007 said:
Jonathan Quick - .916 SV% - 2 cups
Corey Crawford - .919 SV% - 2 cups

Average-good goalies can get hot and help their team to a cup. Hell, add Murray .918 SV%, and you have the past what, 6 cups?
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just thought the symmetry of the stats were nice.

nobody is saying we can't win with Freddy, or anything close to that.

Freddy stunk tonight and cost us the game. That's it That's all.
 
You just can’t live and die by stats all the time.

So one goalie has a save percentage a few points higher than the other. Who ****ing cares? I want the goalie who will help us win the series. Maybe he gives up 7 goals in one of the games off of 25 shots. I mean, that’s it for his personal stats in that series, even if he’s otherwise great and wins four out of five games.

I’m really starting to resent the stats mongering here for drawing definitive conclusions on players based on a few percentage points here and there, whether it be save percentage today, or possession percentages tomorrow. It’s all ****ing nonsense when it grinds down all the hard numbers and intangibles into insignificance. That they’re being used to argue that Tavares ain’t all that, we should really step back and question just how much weight is being given to the advanced junk.
 
zeke said:
The Leafs outplayed one of the elite team's in hockey in their own barn, without our best player, but lost because the goalie let in 4 quick stoppable goals. This is what happened .

Sometimes goalies lose games.
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They were all awful and invisible in the third. To a man. Just go rewatch the impotent PPs they had, and the final push in the last few minutes when they couldn’t get near the net and were icing the puck without any pressure.

If your stats tell you we were good in the third, throw them in the garbage.
 
They doubled us in HDCF SVA and even more so 5V5 (12-5). Isn't that the drum you've been beating for a while? Just curious how we dominated them when the numbers don't really support it. If we use the HD stuff, which everyone seems to like using, we didn't.
 
but the criticism of Freddy tonight had nothing to do with stats mongering, of course.

and why does any criticism of freddy' s play turn into some epic debate on whether he's cup worthy or not? do we do this for any other player?
 
zeke said:
just thought the symmetry of the stats were nice.

nobody is saying we can't win with Freddy, or anything close to that.

Freddy stunk tonight and cost us the game. That's it That's all.
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He matched their goalie, except for the turnover and subsequent deflection by Rielly.

He didn’t lose this one all by himself.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
They were all awful and invisible in the third. To a man. Just go rewatch the impotent PPs they had, and the final push in the last few minutes when they couldn’t get near the net and were icing the puck without any pressure.

If your stats tell you we were good in the third, throw them in the garbage.
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we dominated 2 periods, they dominated one.

I believe 2 is more than one.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
You just can’t live and die by stats all the time.

So one goalie has a save percentage a few points higher than the other. Who ****ing cares? I want the goalie who will help us win the series. Maybe he gives up 7 goals in one of the games off of 25 shots. I mean, that’s it for his personal stats in that series, even if he’s otherwise great and wins four out of five games.

I’m really starting to resent the stats mongering here for drawing definitive conclusions on players based on a few percentage points here and there, whether it be save percentage today, or possession percentages tomorrow. It’s all ****ing nonsense when it grinds down all the hard numbers and intangibles into insignificance. That they’re being used to argue that Tavares ain’t all that, we should really step back and question just how much weight is being given to the advanced junk.
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You need to use them to correct your bias and eye test. They don't affect the way I watch the game, but I definitely look at them at times after the game to see if the way I saw the game was how it really was. If you don't want to use them, fine. But it's irritating when people think their eye test is infallible and they have no bias, when that simply isn't true. We all have bias when watching.
 
Deckie007 said:
They doubled us in HDCF SVA and even more so 5V5 (12-5). Isn't that the drum you've been beating for a while? Just curious how we dominated them when the numbers don't really support it. If we use the HD stuff, which everyone seems to like using, we didn't.
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special teams count too.

5v5 Adjusted

56.3cf%
59.3scf%
34.0hdcf%

All Strengths

57.1cf%
60.9scf%
43.5hdcf%
 
zeke said:
but the criticism of Freddy tonight had nothing to do with stats mongering, of course.

and why does any criticism of freddy' s play turn into some epic debate on whether he's cup worthy or not? do we do this for any other player?
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of course we do. that's silly. But goalies will always be debated more, because they never leave the ice and their good or bad performance influences the game more than anyone.
 
I mean, does this look like domination? We played a perimeter game and got burnt eventually. Goalie let in a couple of softies and 2 unimportant points lost. Sucks, but not really a big deal.

9J9upB5.png
 
zeke said:
we dominated 2 periods, they dominated one.

I believe 2 is more than one.
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Interesting math there. So now the game is to be decided based on how many periods you dominate.

We should’ve definitely won that Game 7 against Boston then, but for Reimer.
 
Deckie007 said:
You need to use them to correct your bias and eye test. They don't affect the way I watch the game, but I definitely look at them at times after the game to see if the way I saw the game was how it really was. If you don't want to use them, fine. But it's irritating when people think their eye test is infallible and they have no bias, when that simply isn't true. We all have bias when watching.
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For sure. You use them to bolster what you see.

Just like how someone uses glasses to sharpen their vision. But they don’t throw out their ****ing eyes.

The stats mongers here have tossed out their peepers. You can’t watch this game and come away saying Freddy lost it. There’s no stat that can make that a reality. The team played like dogshit from the late second through the buzzer.

The third goal should’ve been stopped. But I don’t blame him for the others.
 
Deckie007 said:
I'm aware....we still came out on the short end of the HD chances. So how is that that dominating again?
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in the end, HD chances were 10-13, with the leafs dominating - not just edging - every other metric, including scoring chances.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
Interesting math there. So now the game is to be decided based on how many periods you dominate.

We should’ve definitely won that Game 7 against Boston then, but for Reimer.
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we were outplayed that series. Reiner kept us in it.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
For sure. You use them to bolster what you see.

Just like how someone uses glasses to sharpen their vision. But they don’t throw out their ****ing eyes.

The stats mongers here have tossed out their peepers. You can’t watch this game and come away saying Freddy lost it. There’s no stat that can make that a reality. The team played like dogshit from the late second through the buzzer.

The third goal should’ve been stopped. But I don’t blame him for the others.
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explain how you think "stats mongering" had anything to do with our instantaneous reactions to his obviously flubbed goals?
 
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