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Thread: OT: American Politics

  1. #103361
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    Default Re: OT: American Politics

    You'd think if "reasonable people" existed there would be a significantly higher than usual voter turnout in 2020 that changes the game.

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    Wrong Thinker Extraordinaire Habsy's Avatar
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    Default Re: OT: American Politics

    Trump still has supporters. Those people that donít care about rhetoric will vote for him providing theyíre ok with what has occurred.

    Russian Conspiracy is a non-factor and a loser for Dems (except for far left). I know itís hard to fathom but there are tens of millions that agree with the policies Trump has implemented and if the economy keeps rocking, he will win in 2020 unless the Dems put up a strong candidate.
    #FireJulien#FireMarcBergevin Burn Geoff Molson in effigy! #worstmanagementstaffever

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    Default Re: OT: American Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Habsy View Post
    You’re asking a lot in the current political climate. Someone with a spine? Good luck.
    Just on the Democrat side, Bernie, Warren, and now Avenatti have never run from a fight. None of them will crumple at the first Trump insult like that entire gang of Republicans he ran against did.
    The amount of energy necessary to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude larger than is required to produce it.

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    Wrong Thinker Extraordinaire Habsy's Avatar
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    Default Re: OT: American Politics

    None of them would beat Trump. Heíd chew Warren up. Bernie would give him a run but the country is not quite ready to shift as far left as he would like so I donít see him winning. Avenatti is a joke.

    Biden would be their best shot of the known candidates.

    Itís quite possible that the 2020 Dem candidate isnít even on the radar yet. Obama pretty much came out of nowhere, it could happen again.
    #FireJulien#FireMarcBergevin Burn Geoff Molson in effigy! #worstmanagementstaffever

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    Canadiens & 'News & Views' Moderator TheCountofMonteCristo's Avatar
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    Default Re: OT: American Politics

    He would call her Pocohontas all the time, and get away with it.
    "The next game is the test unless we win" CanadienFan

    Donald Trump, the gift that keeps on giving.

  6. #103366
    Legend Altair's Avatar
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    Default Re: OT: American Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Habsy View Post
    None of them would beat Trump. He’d chew Warren up. Bernie would give him a run but the country is not quite ready to shift as far left as he would like so I don’t see him winning. Avenatti is a joke.

    Biden would be their best shot of the known candidates.

    It’s quite possible that the 2020 Dem candidate isn’t even on the radar yet. Obama pretty much came out of nowhere, it could happen again.
    Avenatti is very much a joke, and Warren I don't see beating Trump.

    Democrats better not screw the pooch like they did in 2016, they really better ****ing not.
    No one loves the warrior until the enemy is at the gate.

    Quote Originally Posted by zeke View Post
    An idiot grunt like habitants should be enraged.

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    Wayward Ditch Pig MindzEye's Avatar
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    Default Re: OT: American Politics

    Bernie would give him a run but the country is not quite ready to shift as far left as he would like so I don’t see him winning.
    Left wing policies poll extremely well, Democrats are just shit at branding and messaging, don't conflate the two. Trump's thin ass victory came on largely left wing messaging. I get that his failures since cloud the memory, but he ran on healthcare and jobs for everyone. and yeah, Bernie was shit stomping Trump in head to head polling before he got steam rolled by the DNC. I think (and the available data suggests) that you're really over estimating how "right wing" Americans are.
    The amount of energy necessary to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude larger than is required to produce it.

  8. #103368
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    Default Re: OT: American Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by MindzEye View Post
    Left wing policies poll extremely well, Democrats are just shit at branding and messaging, don't conflate the two. Trump's thin ass victory came on largely left wing messaging. I get that his failures since cloud the memory, but he ran on healthcare and jobs for everyone. and yeah, Bernie was shit stomping Trump in head to head polling before he got steam rolled by the DNC. I think (and the available data suggests) that you're really over estimating how "right wing" Americans are.
    That's because the Democrats don't know what it is they are.

    Are they the social democrats of the Bernie faction or are they the corporate don't rock the boat types of the Clinton faction? It's as if the Liberals and NDP merged in Canada, they wouldn't know where it was they stood exactly.

    And as we saw with the lackluster support from the bernie faction towards clinton, they don't exactly mesh well.
    No one loves the warrior until the enemy is at the gate.

    Quote Originally Posted by zeke View Post
    An idiot grunt like habitants should be enraged.

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    Wrong Thinker Extraordinaire Habsy's Avatar
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    Default Re: OT: American Politics

    I think that you believe enough people feel the same way about Trump as you do. I donít agree. Trump is the dirty little secret many donít admit. You seem to dismiss that fact. Itíll rear up again in 2020.

    2018 he is not on the ticket. Historically the party not in power gains seats. If the Dems flip the house people will errantly think itís a rebuke on Trump. It isnít. Many of his supporters will only turn out if heís on the ticket.
    #FireJulien#FireMarcBergevin Burn Geoff Molson in effigy! #worstmanagementstaffever

  10. #103370
    Legend zeke's Avatar
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    Default Re: OT: American Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Habsy View Post
    Trump is the dirty little secret many donít admit. .
    you don't say, habsy.
    #FreeVladdy

  11. #103371
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    Default Re: OT: American Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Habsy View Post
    I think that you believe enough people feel the same way about Trump as you do. I don’t agree. Trump is the dirty little secret many don’t admit. You seem to dismiss that fact. It’ll rear up again in 2020.

    2018 he is not on the ticket. Historically the party not in power gains seats. If the Dems flip the house people will errantly think it’s a rebuke on Trump. It isn’t. Many of his supporters will only turn out if he’s on the ticket.
    Yeah, I think the Dems have a built in advantage going into 2020, for while his supporters and those who would rather vote for satan than a democrat will still come out in force, if the dems can mobilize their base and independents, they should win.

    But for the love of god, if they shoot themselves in the foot with their choice of leader, again, it will turn into a dogfight that trump can pull off. Bernie would have done as well as Clinton, and better than Clinton in the rust belt. Who they pick as leader is crucial, and 2020 wont be a cakewalk. I hope it's like you said, someone who comes out of nowhere, because the current crop of rumored candidates doesn't inspire any confidence. Biden is the best of them and that's not exactly a compliment.

    That said, Avenatti can go crawl back into whatever hole he came out of.
    No one loves the warrior until the enemy is at the gate.

    Quote Originally Posted by zeke View Post
    An idiot grunt like habitants should be enraged.

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    Default Re: OT: American Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Habsy View Post
    I think that you believe enough people feel the same way about Trump as you do. I don’t agree. Trump is the dirty little secret many don’t admit. You seem to dismiss that fact. It’ll rear up again in 2020.
    Trump support has always fallen within the margin of error in polling. This idea that there is a massively significant percentage of people who are embarrassed to admit that they're pro Trump just doesn't stand up to the facts we have available. A few percentage points? yeah, sure. Enough for us to throw opinion polling data out of the window? No.
    The amount of energy necessary to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude larger than is required to produce it.

  13. #103373
    Canadiens & 'News & Views' Moderator TheCountofMonteCristo's Avatar
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    Default Re: OT: American Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Habsy View Post
    Theyíll make that same mistake again.

    Reasonable people want to know what a candidate is for... not against.
    exactly

    Dump for all his faults, gave people something to vote for, even if it was sick and demented
    "The next game is the test unless we win" CanadienFan

    Donald Trump, the gift that keeps on giving.

  14. #103374
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    Default Re: OT: American Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Habsy View Post
    None of them would beat Trump. He’d chew Warren up. Bernie would give him a run but the country is not quite ready to shift as far left as he would like so I don’t see him winning. Avenatti is a joke.

    Biden would be their best shot of the known candidates.

    It’s quite possible that the 2020 Dem candidate isn’t even on the radar yet. Obama pretty much came out of nowhere, it could happen again.
    Yeah, Biden for sure if he goes in would be a top candidate. Although the far left in the US is definitely getting more and more mainstream, between the Bernie love, and now Ocasio-Cortez getting basically millions in free advertising. But it's still hard to say if they're just a fringe group getting airtime, or if it's a legit movement that will appeal to the average voter.

  15. #103375
    The Artist Formerly Known as chiggins. CH1's Avatar
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    Default Re: OT: American Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by UWHabs View Post
    Yeah, Biden for sure if he goes in would be a top candidate. Although the far left in the US is definitely getting more and more mainstream, between the Bernie love, and now Ocasio-Cortez getting basically millions in free advertising. But it's still hard to say if they're just a fringe group getting airtime, or if it's a legit movement that will appeal to the average voter.
    IMO, the left mania is overrated. Ocasio was a shocker -- Bernie didn't even campaign for her. Bernie campaigned for a few super left candidates this past week -- all of them fell flat.
    Some GMs get you to the playoffs and some GMs get you through the playoffs.

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    Default Re: OT: American Politics

    The problem with calling it the "far left" is that it works right up until people see the policies they support. Then all of a sudden regular Americans start wondering why they can't have those things. The ideological brainwashing only seems to go so far in working against that. Middle class Americans (and poorer) of all political stripes are starting to ask why they can't have health care for all, why they can't have cheap education, etc, etc, etc. Like I said earlier, when looked at in a vacuum, Americans are in support of "far left" policies in massive numbers. The US political left (aka, the corporate Democrats) have done a shit job of messaging and branding towards that massive policy advantage. This newish breed of Social Democrats don't seem to be having the same problem.
    The amount of energy necessary to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude larger than is required to produce it.

  17. #103377
    Legend Altair's Avatar
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    Default Re: OT: American Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by MindzEye View Post
    The problem with calling it the "far left" is that it works right up until people see the policies they support. Then all of a sudden regular Americans start wondering why they can't have those things. The ideological brainwashing only seems to go so far in working against that. Middle class Americans (and poorer) of all political stripes are starting to ask why they can't have health care for all, why they can't have cheap education, etc, etc, etc. Like I said earlier, when looked at in a vacuum, Americans are in support of "far left" policies in massive numbers. The US political left (aka, the corporate Democrats) have done a shit job of messaging and branding towards that massive policy advantage. This newish breed of Social Democrats don't seem to be having the same problem.
    Its because Americans are allergic to taxes.

    How many Americans believe that they are too heavily taxed?

    Then you go look around the G7 and realize america is one of the least taxed countries in the west.
    No one loves the warrior until the enemy is at the gate.

    Quote Originally Posted by zeke View Post
    An idiot grunt like habitants should be enraged.

  18. #103378
    Wayward Ditch Pig MindzEye's Avatar
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    Default Re: OT: American Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Altair View Post
    Its because Americans are allergic to taxes.

    How many Americans believe that they are too heavily taxed?

    Then you go look around the G7 and realize america is one of the least taxed countries in the west.
    I think a coherent argument could be made, in the language of simple messaging, that taxes wouldn't have to go up. That it would spur job growth, spur entrepreneurs into being able to start more businesses, etc, etc. The the money is already being spent, but it's being spent wastefully. Which is entirely accurate.
    The amount of energy necessary to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude larger than is required to produce it.

  19. #103379
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    Default Re: OT: American Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by MindzEye View Post
    I think a coherent argument could be made, in the language of simple messaging, that taxes wouldn't have to go up. That it would spur job growth, spur entrepreneurs into being able to start more businesses, etc, etc. The the money is already being spent, but it's being spent wastefully. Which is entirely accurate.
    When the NDP makes promises like that I call it bullshit.
    No one loves the warrior until the enemy is at the gate.

    Quote Originally Posted by zeke View Post
    An idiot grunt like habitants should be enraged.

  20. #103380
    Wayward Ditch Pig MindzEye's Avatar
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    Default Re: OT: American Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Altair View Post
    When the NDP makes promises like that I call it bullshit.
    Canada is not the US.

    In the US, there is a legitimate policy argument to be made for a socialized health care system being cheaper than the current system.
    The amount of energy necessary to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude larger than is required to produce it.

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