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Thread: OT: American Politics

  1. #103381
    Wrong Thinker Extraordinaire Habsy's Avatar
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    Default Re: OT: American Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by zeke View Post
    you don't say, habsy.
    I see what you did there. Itís good to have illusions sometimes.
    #FireJulien#FireMarcBergevin Burn Geoff Molson in effigy! #worstmanagementstaffever

  2. #103382
    Wrong Thinker Extraordinaire Habsy's Avatar
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    Default Re: OT: American Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by MindzEye View Post
    Canada is not the US.

    In the US, there is a legitimate policy argument to be made for a socialized health care system being cheaper than the current system.
    Itíll never happen in our lifetime. I would support a government option though. That is the way to progress here.
    #FireJulien#FireMarcBergevin Burn Geoff Molson in effigy! #worstmanagementstaffever

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    ADMINuteman Habspatrol's Avatar
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    Default Re: OT: American Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Habsy View Post
    Itíll never happen in our lifetime. I would support a government option though. That is the way to progress here.
    It's frustrating to hear about a proposed "space force" and increased military budgets instead of putting that money into "Medicare for all."
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    Thank you to Habs4Life for the avatar

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    Wayward Ditch Pig MindzEye's Avatar
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    Default Re: OT: American Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Habsy View Post
    It’ll never happen in our lifetime. I would support a government option though. That is the way to progress here.
    It will happen. A significant amount of Team Trump voted for him because he was promising to replace the ACA with a better version of health care for everyone. There is a huge appetite for it down there.
    The amount of energy necessary to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude larger than is required to produce it.

  5. #103385
    Legend UWHabs's Avatar
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    Default Re: OT: American Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by MindzEye View Post
    It will happen. A significant amount of Team Trump voted for him because he was promising to replace the ACA with a better version of health care for everyone. There is a huge appetite for it down there.
    The problem is even if US spending on health care drops drastically with a public system, the current spending is mostly private. So it will take a large tax increase to pay for it. It will take a long time to convince people that the health premiums they pay are actually taxes.

  6. #103386
    Wrong Thinker Extraordinaire Habsy's Avatar
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    Default Re: OT: American Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by MindzEye View Post
    It will happen. A significant amount of Team Trump voted for him because he was promising to replace the ACA with a better version of health care for everyone. There is a huge appetite for it down there.
    Lip service.

    Theyíll need to implement a government option, have people sign up then eventually move to single payer. Too much money involved to get single payer. Philosophically it sounds good to people, dismantling the current system wonít be as easy as those crying for Medicare for all think.

    I do this every day man, I know this system well and yes, it sucks to administrate.
    #FireJulien#FireMarcBergevin Burn Geoff Molson in effigy! #worstmanagementstaffever

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    Wayward Ditch Pig MindzEye's Avatar
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    Default Re: OT: American Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by UWHabs View Post
    The problem is even if US spending on health care drops drastically with a public system, the current spending is mostly private. So it will take a large tax increase to pay for it. It will take a long time to convince people that the health premiums they pay are actually taxes.
    The US spends as much on Medicaid and Medicare patients, if averaged out over the entire population, as Canada spends per person. The money is largely there. But I don't want to get bogged down in specifics, that wasn't my point. My point was that the messaging is there to make the popular argument that it is tax/revenue neutral. If the American public is willing to accept every comforting lie lobbed at them about shit that is actually damaging society, using good political messaging to sell them socialized healthcare is worth the headaches of a bit of congressional grand standing from the opposition when the numbers don't work out like your simple messaging suggested during the process of getting the system set up.
    The amount of energy necessary to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude larger than is required to produce it.

  8. #103388
    Wayward Ditch Pig MindzEye's Avatar
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    Default Re: OT: American Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Habsy View Post
    Lip service.

    They’ll need to implement a government option, have people sign up then eventually move to single payer. Too much money involved to get single payer. Philosophically it sounds good to people, dismantling the current system won’t be as easy as those crying for Medicare for all think.

    I do this every day man, I know this system well and yes, it sucks to administrate.
    Worth the cost. People swallow government lies all the time. This is one that will benefit them in the end.
    The amount of energy necessary to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude larger than is required to produce it.

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    ADMINuteman Habspatrol's Avatar
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    Default Re: OT: American Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by MindzEye View Post
    Worth the cost. People swallow government lies all the time. This is one that will benefit them in the end.

    I'm astounded at what people will by into. I've spoken to very low income Americans with medical conditions that are against universal healthcare. I'm talking people that can't afford an emergency room visit or even a regular check up. They completely buy into the fear mongering of "socialism."

    As a "middle" or "upper" class... or wealthy people voting against their own interests for the greater (depending on their beliefs) good. But people without the means to provide for themselves and their family? That's just mind boggling to me.

  10. #103390
    Legend Altair's Avatar
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    Default Re: OT: American Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Habspatrol View Post
    I'm astounded at what people will by into. I've spoken to very low income Americans with medical conditions that are against universal healthcare. I'm talking people that can't afford an emergency room visit or even a regular check up. They completely buy into the fear mongering of "socialism."

    As a "middle" or "upper" class... or wealthy people voting against their own interests for the greater (depending on their beliefs) good. But people without the means to provide for themselves and their family? That's just mind boggling to me.
    Propaganda is amazing.

    Socialism=Communism, Communism= bad.

    America is the best country in the world= nothing to learn from any other country.

    Then the amazing myth that Americans are overtaxed.

    As long as people believe that, they will vote against their own interests. Proudly too.
    No one loves the warrior until the enemy is at the gate.

    Quote Originally Posted by zeke View Post
    An idiot grunt like habitants should be enraged.

  11. #103391
    Canadiens & 'News & Views' Moderator TheCountofMonteCristo's Avatar
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    Default Re: OT: American Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Habspatrol View Post
    I'm astounded at what people will by into. I've spoken to very low income Americans with medical conditions that are against universal healthcare. I'm talking people that can't afford an emergency room visit or even a regular check up. They completely buy into the fear mongering of "socialism."

    As a "middle" or "upper" class... or wealthy people voting against their own interests for the greater (depending on their beliefs) good. But people without the means to provide for themselves and their family? That's just mind boggling to me.
    Americans never see themselves as poor, just millionaires down on their luck
    "The next game is the test unless we win" CanadienFan

    Donald Trump, the gift that keeps on giving.

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    Wayward Ditch Pig MindzEye's Avatar
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    Default Re: OT: American Politics

    Here's some recent data from a ...get this...Koch Brothers study:

    - "Medicare for all" would save Americans at least 200 Billion a year
    - 66% of Americans said that free college tuition would either "very" or "somewhat" effective in lowering or eliminating current socio economic barriers
    - 65% support a 15 dollar national minimum wage


    Left wing policies are tremendously popular in the US. Left wing politicians have done a tragically shit job in accepting this and shaping their messaging accordingly. The "far left" politicians who are making some ground now aren't having the same problem.
    The amount of energy necessary to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude larger than is required to produce it.

  13. #103393
    Wrong Thinker Extraordinaire Habsy's Avatar
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    Default Re: OT: American Politics

    The issue is pricing. Laws would have to be implemented to regulate healthcare costs. These ****ers (congress) can't agree on what to do with DACA, you think they'll agree on healthcare? Really?

    A candidate can say whatever they want. Hey, let's build a wall. Genius! Then the real magic happens, legislation. All of a sudden poof goes the campaign promise.

    Again, if you think building a stupid wall is hard to get money for, good luck getting single payer through.

    Personally? I would benefit greatly from single-payer. Chasing private healthcare insurance carriers for payment requires an entire billing and collections staff. They deny coverage all over the place. When we bill medicare? Government pays with little to no issue. The adjudication rate for commercial payers is about 40%. Government? 95%. The government imposes it's own pay schedule and companies work within those parameters. Easier to budget and plan.

    A government option is the way to start this. If they can show it is stable enough (medicare has been bleeding money for decades) then I can see them having the support to move forward. Trying to ram it down the country's throat won't work in this particular country.


    Switching gears to free public college: I heard an interesting idea the other day. People already pay school tax for public primary and secondary education so they are used to that portion. The idea was that if you claim children on your tax return (for a larger refund) you will also pay an education tax for those children to pay for college. It basically charges parents the bill and not those without children. It's complicated and more information is needed but at least it's thinking outside the box. It would force parents to "save" for their kid's education.
    #FireJulien#FireMarcBergevin Burn Geoff Molson in effigy! #worstmanagementstaffever

  14. #103394
    Wrong Thinker Extraordinaire Habsy's Avatar
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    Default Re: OT: American Politics

    One more thing, the concern over paid college is that the government has a shitty track record providing proper education. That would have to change as well. For the better I mean, not what DeVos has been proposing.
    #FireJulien#FireMarcBergevin Burn Geoff Molson in effigy! #worstmanagementstaffever

  15. #103395
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    Default Re: OT: American Politics

    The college system is truly broken...though maybe the rich kids think it's just fine...any country needs educated people moving up through the system, not just someone paying for a diploma.
    Sports scholarships, while I understand their value, just perpetrate the american mythos...we need way more academic scholarships.

  16. #103396
    The Artist Formerly Known as chiggins. CH1's Avatar
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    Default Re: OT: American Politics

    Some GMs get you to the playoffs and some GMs get you through the playoffs.

  17. #103397
    Legend JackBurton's Avatar
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    Default Re: OT: American Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Habspatrol View Post
    It's frustrating to hear about a proposed "space force" and increased military budgets instead of putting that money into "Medicare for all."
    It's insane.

  18. #103398
    Legend zeke's Avatar
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    Default Re: OT: American Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by CH1 View Post
    yep.

    this is not a marketing problem for dems - most dems are just as much inn the pockets of big pharma/healthcare as the pubs. they have no interest in destroying that cashcow.
    #FreeVladdy

  19. #103399
    Wrong Thinker Extraordinaire Habsy's Avatar
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    Default Re: OT: American Politics

    Finally some truth.
    #FireJulien#FireMarcBergevin Burn Geoff Molson in effigy! #worstmanagementstaffever

  20. #103400
    Legend Volcanologist's Avatar
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    Default Re: OT: American Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Habsy View Post
    Finally some truth.
    wow
    "...And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."

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