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OT: American Politics

zeke said:
not really. they all do it. all of them.

that's why the hillary "email scandal" was always such a joke.
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it is not that they all do it that bothers me. I accept that this is a standard practice.

it is that he had the audacity to hold a press conference that sewered her presidential campaign for doing the same thing he did. shameless hypocrisy. it just exposes his sanctimonious and holier than thou attitude as a sham.
 
Wayward DP said:
Italy is apparently refusing to ratify CETA (as per the Globe)

I would be very curious to undertake an analysis of all the decisions made by Trump (and now Italy's government), and see just how many of them do anything opposed or counter to Russian interests.
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Their excuse for this is some self important bullshit. The treaty only identifies 40 of Italy's 290+ PDO food products (for example, only Parmesian Reggiano from approved regions can be called parmesian reggiano, only parma ham from approved regions can be called parma ham, etc).

But when you look at the list of protected products, most of them aren't popular food items in the least and aren't going to be counterfeited by Canadian producers. I completely grasp the necessity of protecting important internationally recognized products (parm, asiago, parma ham, mozzarella di buffala, etc) but I'm pretty sure the Canadian food industry isn't going to switch to inferior potatoes and try to pass them off as italian product.
 
MindzEye said:
Their excuse for this is some self important bullshit. The treaty only identifies 40 of Italy's 290+ PDO food products (for example, only Parmesian Reggiano from approved regions can be called parmesian reggiano, only parma ham from approved regions can be called parma ham, etc).

But when you look at the list of protected products, most of them aren't popular food items in the least and aren't going to be counterfeited by Canadian producers. I completely grasp the necessity of protecting important internationally recognized products (parm, asiago, parma ham, mozzarella di buffala, etc) but I'm pretty sure the Canadian food industry isn't going to switch to inferior potatoes and try to pass them off as italian product.
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the timing also raises some alarm bells

although, in fairness, the new government did just get sworn in, so it could be legit. but it stinks regardless...
 
Wayward DP said:
the timing also raises some alarm bells

although, in fairness, the new government did just get sworn in, so it could be legit. but it stinks regardless...
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Thing is, the deal is good for Italy, not bad. Will likely increase it's food, wine, & clothing exports. This nonsense about Canada not recognizing PDO listed, but unpopular food products (in Canada) is kind of an amazing reason to not ratify.

It's like Mexico not ratifying nafta because the treaty doesn't protect products like mole (dark chocolate and chiles that almost no one in Canada has ever heard of or eaten), arracherra (a cut of beef that no butcher in the country that I've ever spoken to sells or has even heard of), etc.

It's ****ing ridiculous.
 
MindzEye said:
Thing is, the deal is good for Italy, not bad. Will likely increase it's food, wine, & clothing exports. This nonsense about Canada not recognizing PDO listed, but unpopular food products (in Canada) is kind of an amazing reason to not ratify.

It's like Mexico not ratifying nafta because the treaty doesn't protect products like mole (dark chocolate and chiles that almost no one in Canada has ever heard of or eaten), arracherra (a cut of beef that no butcher in the country that I've ever spoken to sells or has even heard of), etc.

It's ****ing ridiculous.
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exactly why I am suspicious as to their motives in picking this hill to die on
 
So this IG report isn't the one Republicans were hoping for eh? They're trying to spin it as "omg 2 FBI investigators hated Trump....deep state!!", but it really doesn't give them what they wanted it to give them.

Basically says that Comey was shit in a bunch of different directions, but it sure wasn't shit that benefited Hillary.
 
MindzEye said:
So this IG report isn't the one Republicans were hoping for eh? They're trying to spin it as "omg 2 FBI investigators hated Trump....deep state!!", but it really doesn't give them what they wanted it to give them.

Basically says that Comey was shit in a bunch of different directions, but it sure wasn't shit that benefited Hillary.
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the gop never lets facts get in the way of a good narrative though
 
You guys actually think this IG report is a good thing? It exposes serious issues within the FBI and DOJ.
 
Habsy said:
You guys actually think this IG report is a good thing? It exposes serious issues within the FBI and DOJ.
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Not at all, it's just not the thing the political right wing was claiming it was. Comey absolutely deviated from FBI/DOJ policy on a number of occasions, but the most egregious of those continues to be publicly announcing the re opening of the Clinton investigation right before the election. There's no evidence in the IG report of a "deep state" conspiracy against Trump. Even regarding the two FBI agents who were banging each other, the worst the IG report says about them is that Strzok may have...may have improperly prioritized the Russia investigation (not to be confused with the Mueller investigation) over the Clinton email investigation in the weeks just prior to the election. Horowitz follows that up though by stating that he found no evidence that those decisions were made for political purposes, just that he didn't have confidence in Strzok's ability to act objectively given the content of the private text messages.

The IG report though did find that the investigative decisions made during the Clinton email investigation were made on merit, and the IG report doesn't at all support the conspiracy theory that the investigation was politically biased, in fact it states the opposite, that no proof of bias exists. The report also concludes that the decision to not prosecute Hillary was based on "an assessment of the facts, the law, and past department practices in cases involving these statutes". He had a few minor criticisms of decisions make during the investigation, but only a few and he concluded that all were within realistically allowable tolerances of an investigation.

No, it's not a great look for the FBI here. They had an investigator who really didn't like Trump, and a Director who didn't want to colour inside the lines (in any direction). It shows the need for additional non partisan oversight in politically charged investigations, but it doesn't show the systemic corruption that the Trumpist and assorted pussy Trump apologists have been claiming for months now. It doesn't show anything remotely close to the "deep state" FBI/DOJ conspiracy against Trump that we've been promised is incoming, etc. We were told what was already pretty widely known and largely expected. There was a biased investigator, and a Director who lost his damn mind.
 
So again, what we were promised the IG report would uncover was this:

- The Clinton investigation was a sham and she should have been prosecuted
- The deep state was out to get Trump

Neither of these two things are remotely true according to the IG Report. In fact, damn near the opposite appears to be true. The Clinton investigation was appropriate and reached the right decision on whether or not to prosecute and there is no deep state conspiracy out to get Trump, most just one semi unhinged investigator who made some questionable decisions regarding the prioritization of what to investigate first. Though the muppet did himself no ****ing favours at all with the content of the text messages, given the fact that the IG appears to be vindicating the findings of the Clinton investigation, it's reasonable to believe that prioritizing an investigation into whether or not a foreign power was dabbling in election ****ery, over what appeared to be a dead investigation into a private email server, was the right call. At that time, the prospect of Russian election interference was far more important than reheating last night's dinner.
 
Speaking of the Clinton investigation...Habsy, are you now satisfied? The IG report directly deals with what you've wanted dug into, and came out with findings suggesting that the decisions made show no political bias, and the report supports the decisions made regarding not prosecuting Clinton. Are you accepting this as legitimate?
 
An investigator? Try the LEAD investigator.

Two things jump out at me from what I’ve heard and read thus far and I know there is more to read:

1) They couldn’t do anything to Hillary even though the IG claims hostile foreign actors did indeed compromise her server and stole secrets. Why couldn’t they do anything? Because they’re all guilty of insecure transmissions. This is a systemic problem within the government that needs to be fixed. Now.

2) Strzok pealed off the Clinton investigation to focus on Russia because he hates Trump. This is what caused the Weiner laptop emails to come out so late in the year instead of in the summer. Strzok’s own politically motivated hatred towards trump actually caused Hillary damage. The irony is incredible. A self-fulfilling prophecy if you will. Trying to ensure Trump doesn’t get elected likely caused him getting elected. Incredible.
 
MindzEye said:
Speaking of the Clinton investigation...Habsy, are you now satisfied? The IG report directly deals with what you've wanted dug into, and came out with findings suggesting that the decisions made show no political bias, and the report supports the decisions made regarding not prosecuting Clinton. Are you accepting this as legitimate?
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Nope. She’s guilty as ****. The problem is they can’t take her down because they’re all apparently guilty of the same ****ing thing.

Am I content that this is why it would be unfair to prosecute her? Yes. I’m now more pissed that the IG found this is a systemic issue.
 
1) They couldn’t do anything to Hillary even though the IG claims hostile foreign actors did indeed compromise her server and stole secrets. Why couldn’t they do anything? Because they’re all guilty of insecure transmissions. This is a systemic problem within the government that needs to be fixed. Now.
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absolutely. The US government has been completely negligent in it's management of just about all things IT. Singling out Hillary for this was always ridiculous, and the problems have continued (I'd argue that they've worsened) in the current administration. Trump refusing to utilize a secure cell phone is incredible. The US needs to get it's shit together here, badly, and now.

2) Strzok pealed off the Clinton investigation to focus on Russia because he hates Trump. This is what caused the Weiner laptop emails to come out so late in the year instead of in the summer. Strzok’s own politically motivated hatred towards trump actually caused Hillary damage. The irony is incredible. A self-fulfilling prophecy if you will. Trying to ensure Trump doesn’t get elected likely caused him getting elected. Incredible.
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It's one of the things that tipped the balance in the end, yep.

Again though, none of these things are what we were promised was going to be in here. This isn't a good look for the FBI at all, but proof of systemic anti Trump corruption just isn't there.
 
Habsy said:
Nope. She’s guilty as ****. The problem is they can’t take her down because they’re all apparently guilty of the same ****ing thing.

Am I content that this is why it would be unfair to prosecute her? Yes. I’m now more pissed that the IG found this is a systemic issue.
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Trump uses an unsecure iPhone 5 and refuses to switch it.

Let that sink in.
 
The IG actually reports Comey saying he didn’t know Weiner and Abedin were married. I mean WTF?
 
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