Habsy
Yes, I'm kidding people.
I see what you did there. It’s good to have illusions sometimes.
OT: American Politics
- Thread starter MindzEye
- Start date
I see what you did there. It’s good to have illusions sometimes.
Habsy
Yes, I'm kidding people.
It’ll never happen in our lifetime. I would support a government option though. That is the way to progress here.
It's frustrating to hear about a proposed "space force" and increased military budgets instead of putting that money into "Medicare for all."
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
It will happen. A significant amount of Team Trump voted for him because he was promising to replace the ACA with a better version of health care for everyone. There is a huge appetite for it down there.
UWHabs
Well-known member
The problem is even if US spending on health care drops drastically with a public system, the current spending is mostly private. So it will take a large tax increase to pay for it. It will take a long time to convince people that the health premiums they pay are actually taxes.
Habsy
Yes, I'm kidding people.
Lip service.
They’ll need to implement a government option, have people sign up then eventually move to single payer. Too much money involved to get single payer. Philosophically it sounds good to people, dismantling the current system won’t be as easy as those crying for Medicare for all think.
I do this every day man, I know this system well and yes, it sucks to administrate.
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
The US spends as much on Medicaid and Medicare patients, if averaged out over the entire population, as Canada spends per person. The money is largely there. But I don't want to get bogged down in specifics, that wasn't my point. My point was that the messaging is there to make the popular argument that it is tax/revenue neutral. If the American public is willing to accept every comforting lie lobbed at them about shit that is actually damaging society, using good political messaging to sell them socialized healthcare is worth the headaches of a bit of congressional grand standing from the opposition when the numbers don't work out like your simple messaging suggested during the process of getting the system set up.
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
Worth the cost. People swallow government lies all the time. This is one that will benefit them in the end.
I'm astounded at what people will by into. I've spoken to very low income Americans with medical conditions that are against universal healthcare. I'm talking people that can't afford an emergency room visit or even a regular check up. They completely buy into the fear mongering of "socialism."
As a "middle" or "upper" class... or wealthy people voting against their own interests for the greater (depending on their beliefs) good. But people without the means to provide for themselves and their family? That's just mind boggling to me.
Altair
Well-known member
Propaganda is amazing.
Socialism=Communism, Communism= bad.
America is the best country in the world= nothing to learn from any other country.
Then the amazing myth that Americans are overtaxed.
As long as people believe that, they will vote against their own interests. Proudly too.
Americans never see themselves as poor, just millionaires down on their luck
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
Here's some recent data from a ...get this...Koch Brothers study:
- "Medicare for all" would save Americans at least 200 Billion a year
- 66% of Americans said that free college tuition would either "very" or "somewhat" effective in lowering or eliminating current socio economic barriers
- 65% support a 15 dollar national minimum wage
Left wing policies are tremendously popular in the US. Left wing politicians have done a tragically shit job in accepting this and shaping their messaging accordingly. The "far left" politicians who are making some ground now aren't having the same problem.
- "Medicare for all" would save Americans at least 200 Billion a year
- 66% of Americans said that free college tuition would either "very" or "somewhat" effective in lowering or eliminating current socio economic barriers
- 65% support a 15 dollar national minimum wage
Left wing policies are tremendously popular in the US. Left wing politicians have done a tragically shit job in accepting this and shaping their messaging accordingly. The "far left" politicians who are making some ground now aren't having the same problem.
Habsy
Yes, I'm kidding people.
The issue is pricing. Laws would have to be implemented to regulate healthcare costs. These ****ers (congress) can't agree on what to do with DACA, you think they'll agree on healthcare? Really?
A candidate can say whatever they want. Hey, let's build a wall. Genius! Then the real magic happens, legislation. All of a sudden poof goes the campaign promise.
Again, if you think building a stupid wall is hard to get money for, good luck getting single payer through.
Personally? I would benefit greatly from single-payer. Chasing private healthcare insurance carriers for payment requires an entire billing and collections staff. They deny coverage all over the place. When we bill medicare? Government pays with little to no issue. The adjudication rate for commercial payers is about 40%. Government? 95%. The government imposes it's own pay schedule and companies work within those parameters. Easier to budget and plan.
A government option is the way to start this. If they can show it is stable enough (medicare has been bleeding money for decades) then I can see them having the support to move forward. Trying to ram it down the country's throat won't work in this particular country.
Switching gears to free public college: I heard an interesting idea the other day. People already pay school tax for public primary and secondary education so they are used to that portion. The idea was that if you claim children on your tax return (for a larger refund) you will also pay an education tax for those children to pay for college. It basically charges parents the bill and not those without children. It's complicated and more information is needed but at least it's thinking outside the box. It would force parents to "save" for their kid's education.
A candidate can say whatever they want. Hey, let's build a wall. Genius! Then the real magic happens, legislation. All of a sudden poof goes the campaign promise.
Again, if you think building a stupid wall is hard to get money for, good luck getting single payer through.
Personally? I would benefit greatly from single-payer. Chasing private healthcare insurance carriers for payment requires an entire billing and collections staff. They deny coverage all over the place. When we bill medicare? Government pays with little to no issue. The adjudication rate for commercial payers is about 40%. Government? 95%. The government imposes it's own pay schedule and companies work within those parameters. Easier to budget and plan.
A government option is the way to start this. If they can show it is stable enough (medicare has been bleeding money for decades) then I can see them having the support to move forward. Trying to ram it down the country's throat won't work in this particular country.
Switching gears to free public college: I heard an interesting idea the other day. People already pay school tax for public primary and secondary education so they are used to that portion. The idea was that if you claim children on your tax return (for a larger refund) you will also pay an education tax for those children to pay for college. It basically charges parents the bill and not those without children. It's complicated and more information is needed but at least it's thinking outside the box. It would force parents to "save" for their kid's education.
Bleedsblue&white
Well-known member
The college system is truly broken...though maybe the rich kids think it's just fine...any country needs educated people moving up through the system, not just someone paying for a diploma.
Sports scholarships, while I understand their value, just perpetrate the american mythos...we need way more academic scholarships.
Sports scholarships, while I understand their value, just perpetrate the american mythos...we need way more academic scholarships.
JackBurton
Well-known member
It's insane.
Volcanologist
Well-known member
wow