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Late Summer Canes Roster Talk

jeffbear

Mod Squad
Staff member
OK Canes fans, we're past that UFA boom cycle, kicked off by the opening the July 1 window, through the bulk of the RFA re-signings and arbitration hearings, and approaching August when we're definitely into the quiet run-up period before players start to trickle into their franchise cities for the last leg of pre season conditioning ahead of camps. Training camps open starting with the Kings on September 12th, while the last date for formally opening camp is on September 15th when the Canes open camp along with a bunch of other teams.

By then, teams generally want their roster at least settled in theory although there's always the depth positions that will be determined by camp battles and such. August tends to be reserved for the last of the free agent moves as clubs start to figure out what holes they have remaining to plug, and depth type trades to shore up positions of weakness and organizational imbalances. Under both Rutherford and Francis this was typically a time to be thinking about adding 4th line grunts and maybe taking a flyer on an undervalued free agent, a salary cap victim from a high budget team or a Euro free agent.

So, looking at the Canes roster (and acknowledging the obvious weakness down the middle of the ice), what's the take on how the Canes set things up going into training camp in 6 or 7 weeks?

Personally, I think they're going to gear up for camp trusting (on paper at least) the middle of the ice to Steal, Necas, Aho and Rask and then see what shakes out. You've also got Saarela, Hallmark, Kuokkanen and Roy from the Checkers' roster to look at in camp as well. If Carolina is truly serious about playing both Necks and Aho at center this season then there's a decent chance that one of those guys will be on the roster for depth if not hanging around to push Rask for that fourth line role. Dangling out there is the issue of Jeff Skinner, but after a flurry of rumors he's still here. I presume that Skinner remains on the market and common sense says that if they move him, the Canes would prefer a center in the deal ... but God only knows at this point. It's clear that they aren't going to to move Skinner just to move him, so that issue is hanging around for now. The wings are much more settled, even with Skinner on the sheet in pencil. Svechnikov adds real quality to the mix, as do Ferland and Zykov. Martinook was added and brings his considerable energy to the mix. McGinn and Williams are coming off of relatively strong showings, and Teravainen is coming off of a career year. There's quality competition for some depth roles too, in the form of Maenalalen and Foegele. Add a center and return Aho to that mix and you've got a really solid and diverse group.

On D things are more settled, although you've still got a will they/won't they issue with Justin Faulk. As things sit now, the likely top 7 of Slavin, de Haan, Hamilton, Pesce, Faulk, TVR and Fleury is quite good. Nice mix if righties and lefties, decent experience, decent size, and a good diversity of skills. Bean, McKeown and Carrick represent decent cover for that group down in Charlotte too. There's freedom to move Faulk without feeling like he has to be replaced like for like, and that's a plus. I suspect that they'll hold out for a move that makes sense of the concerns at forward rather than defense ... which is much easier to accomplish most of the time.

In net, The Canes have the classic "it is what it is" scenario. Unable to find a proven answer in the trade market or free agency, they're betting big on Darling's conditioning program to get him prepared to battle it out with fellow scrapper Petr Mrazek in camp for the starting job. There's not much behind them either as Nedeljkovic, Helvig and Booth all still need significant time in the development oven. You want a team weakness? This and first line center. Staring you in the face with a gap toothed grin.

Early prognosis? Results in goal will improve, but only because they could hardly do otherwise. They'll struggle down the middle, especially with the more physical teams but will have an improved team spirit playing for Brind'Amour. The power play will improve with the additions of Hamilton at the point and Svechnikov's one timer on the wing. I like the Canes chances of being better, and probably being more fun to watch. I only wish I thought the parts added up to a playoff spot. As we sit right now, I don't think they do.
 
the unofficial practices/skates gear up in mid August I think. More guys show up later in August if they have kids since school starts around August 25th.
 
the unofficial practices/skates gear up in mid August I think. More guys show up later in August if they have kids since school starts around August 25th.

There are guys who stay local and start to rent ice time on their own starting in early August, then yeah ... the informal team workouts start in mid-August generally.
 
Late summer?! We're only in the sixth week of the season...not even halfway throught it. Don't kill my summer buzz, man!
 
Late summer?! We're only in the sixth week of the season...not even halfway throught it. Don't kill my summer buzz, man!

Late in the HOCKEY summer. NC Summer will carry on through the end of September as per usual.
 
….Saarela, Hallmark, Kuokkanen and Roy from the Checkers' roster to look at in camp as well.....

I'm not sure if that was an intentional jab at Wallmark's physical game or not... :smilewinkgrin:

Without knowing for sure if Waddell and crew really envision the possibility of starting the season with both Skinner and Faulk still on the roster, its pretty hard for me to get a feel for what exactly we have. I would much rather have Aho on the wing again then have both him and Necas as centers on the roster. That seems way too risky to have both of them as regular centers. Jordan Staal is going to end up taking some insane number of faceoffs.

That said, you can very quickly put 4 lines together with the group of forwards we have. If you really trust the Necas, Svech, and Zykov are going to slide right in an produce you can envision:

Zykov-Aho-Teravainen
McGinn-Staal-Williams
Skinner-Necas-Svechnikov
Martinook-Rask-Ferland

That leaves PDG as an extra. If you are thinking Wallmark will be claimed on waivers, he is also in the mix. Mix and match those lines as you want, but that is really expecting a lot out of the rookies. They HAVE to produce. is Ferland really going to play on the 4th line? Don't like that? So where is he exactly should he be if not the 4th line?

The D is much simpler of course, with or without Faulk. And the goaltending is what it is unless Darling or Mrazek flame out of their roles. What happens if Darling looks like a train wreck in pre-season?

Zykov, Necas and Svechnikov all in the top 9? That is a leap of faith if we really do that. We have a whole pile of other prospects backing them up of course, and Ferland apparently can slide easily into just about any line.

Exciting? Hell yeah! We will be dreaming of 30 goals seasons from both Zykov and Svechnikov and a 50 point season from Necas. Playoffs? I have no clue if that offense will really be able to score goals as there are 3 guys in our top 9 that have a grand total of 4 NHL goals, and they all belong to one of them.

The D should be really good.

The goaltending? Could be anywhere from above average to epically catastrophic.

This team is loaded with potential. I think the D keeps us from being a total train wreck if the goaltending is shaky or the kids cannot deliver the extra O we need to get over the hump. But man, as stands right now, we are really putting an awful lot on the shoulders of 3 rookies.
 
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Ah man they won't Steal a playoff spot now ... Staaling one is far more likely though...
 
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I'm not sure if that was an intentional jab at Wallmark's physical game or not... :smilewinkgrin:

Without knowing for sure if Waddell and crew really envision the possibility of starting the season with both Skinner and Faulk still on the roster, its pretty hard for me to get a feel for what exactly we have. I would much rather have Aho on the wing again then have both him and Necas as centers on the roster. That seems way too risky to have both of them as regular centers. Jordan Staal is going to end up taking some insane number of faceoffs.

That said, you can very quickly put 4 lines together with the group of forwards we have. If you really trust the Necas, Svech, and Zykov are going to slide right in an produce you can envision:

Zykov-Aho-Teravainen
McGinn-Staal-Williams
Skinner-Necas-Svechnikov
Martinook-Rask-Ferland

That leaves PDG as an extra. If you are thinking Wallmark will be claimed on waivers, he is also in the mix. Mix and match those lines as you want, but that is really expecting a lot out of the rookies. They HAVE to produce. is Ferland really going to play on the 4th line? Don't like that? So where is he exactly should he be if not the 4th line?

The D is much simpler of course, with or without Faulk. And the goaltending is what it is unless Darling or Mrazek flame out of their roles. What happens if Darling looks like a train wreck in pre-season?

Zykov, Necas and Svechnikov all in the top 9? That is a leap of faith if we really do that. We have a whole pile of other prospects backing them up of course, and Ferland apparently can slide easily into just about any line.

Exciting? Hell yeah! We will be dreaming of 30 goals seasons from both Zykov and Svechnikov and a 50 point season from Necas. Playoffs? I have no clue if that offense will really be able to score goals as there are 3 guys in our top 9 that have a grand total of 4 NHL goals, and they all belong to one of them.

The D should be really good.

The goaltending? Could be anywhere from above average to epically catastrophic.

This team is loaded with potential. I think the D keeps us from being a total train wreck if the goaltending is shaky or the kids cannot deliver the extra O we need to get over the hump. But man, as stands right now, we are really putting an awful lot on the shoulders of 3 rookies.

With Faulk and Skinner still twisting in the wind, it still seems like a mystery of what that final roster will look like. I'd love to see Faulk moved out for some help at center and a batter balance of the lines, time will tell if that happens. I do not see Skinner being moved just for the sake of a trade, they can afford to hang on to him heading into camp and beyond.

The NHL has really evolved into a young mans league and I have no doubt that high end skill guys like Necas and Svechnikov can play a big role as early as this season, young players are so good at such an early age these days that it should not surprise anyone if they both transition quickly into a solid NHL players.

Expect the Finn Metalaanen to push guys like PDG, Wallmark and Martinook for a depth roster spot, guys like PDG and Wallmark being lost on waivers is not the end of the world.

The D looks great, no worries back there, fully expect the two new additions to really anchor the top of the defense next year.

The goaltending is a crap shoot but at least it looks like it may be a decent competition for the starters job.
 
PDG successfully went down and up last season and despite his late season offensive surge, he should easily pass through waivers if needed. But he has a 1 way deal, so with no cost savings to be realized by sending him down, I see him being our 13th/14th forward whose playing time ends up limited to injury fill ins or 'Brindy accountability timeouts'. He could also end up being dealt if we are near the end of camp and he is sitting at 15th+ on the forward depth chart (for what I have no idea, he's in no more than a 5th round pick or a depth NHL/AHLer coming back territory).

Wallmark is a tougher call. He's been a point per game player in 2 AHL seasons and has looked capable in his 11 NHL games. To me, he is a waiver claim risk if we try to assign him to the AHL again, but then again, we have seen players as good as Wallmark pass through waivers successfully before. I don't know how desperate other NHL teams will be at the point in time we have to finalize the NHL roster, but I would say its probably quite a bit less than a 50% chance we would lose Wallmark to waivers if he doesn't make the club out of camp.

Something to think about as we do or don't trade Justin Faulk....

What happens with Justin Faulk has potential ramifications for a few of our other Dmen. If Faulk is traded without another DMan coming back, then to me, Carrick is a logical 7th Dman candidate on the NHL roster, possibly splitting some time with Fleury who would likely be our 3rd pair LD. If Faulk is still on the roster when the season opens, it might actually be Fleury who ends up back in Charlotte with Carrick sticking at the 'doesn't play all the much' 7th Dman spot. If we get an NHL LD back in a Justin Faulk trade, again it might be Carrick who sticks as the #7 Dman with Fleury heading back to the minors. This is all about making sure that Fleury is playing regularly somewhere as a 3rd year pro with (hopefully) some additional upside to be realized. If that is not 60 games in the NHL then Fleury really should be back in Charlotte. Carrick at this point is what he is. If he ends up playing only 30 games as our 7th NHL Dman and spends the rest of the time in the press box, that isn't that big a deal.

Zykov wouldn't make it through waivers to start the season, but that might change if he busts out early on with the Canes. Not that anyone is expecting Zykov to not deliver, but he is going to be under enormous pressure to score goals.
 
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I'm not sure if that was an intentional jab at Wallmark's physical game or not... :smilewinkgrin:

Persistent autocorrect error that I don't even notice anymore. I think I'm just going to call him Hallmark from here out. I will NOT cave in to my operating system's insistence that I mean "Peace" when I type our "Pesce" however.

And on the forward lines, I like that Ferland can play either wing and pretty much on any of the four lines that need a boost. He's kind of the guy we've always wished that McGinn would turn into. Honestly, make a move for a serviceable center and I like the mix up front even if that move costs you Skinner. Yeah, we're relying a lot on youth, but it's youthful quality. In my book a quality center (not even a proper number one ... just a decent, reliable NHL quality center) puts the Canes squarely in the playoff mix.

And for the record, I see no possible way we get Hallmark or Zykov thru waivers. PDG? No problem. But with Peters and his ridiculous notions of how to put a line together gone, I see no logical reason that Zykov will do anything other than play in the NHL this season. It would take a horrific camp to result in any other outcome.
 
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More than once, the Canes roster has looked very promising, on paper. It's the on ice version that ruffles my feathers.

I'm very curious to see how this season plays out. Very.
 
Honestly, I haven't been "excited" about a Canes roster in so long I'm not sure I remember what that feels like. This one at least intrigues me.
 
What does the lack of movement on the Skinner and Faulk front say in terms of interest from other teams? We're not even hearing rumors about these two any more. Is our asking price too high or just no interest at all?
 
What does the lack of movement on the Skinner and Faulk front say in terms of interest from other teams? We're not even hearing rumors about these two any more. Is our asking price too high or just no interest at all?

Personally, I think Carolina's asking price is simply a return that helps them in the short term. They're clearly nor desperate to move either one unless the return is right. There's no urgency now, when you know full well that both of those two will generate significant value at the deadline ... when EVERYBODY ends up offering too much. Cool heads prevail in this scenario. I'm happy to see us sticking to our guns and waiting for the right deal.

Besides ... we all know 99% of the details in those rumors are cooked up by the guys reporting them. You know the drill .... a reporter gets a legit tip from some low level guy in Team A's front office (or from a specific player's agent) that Team A is trying to work a deal with Team B (no details, because you get fired for leaking details) and then the reporter fills in the gaps with his own notions of relative needs and values.
 
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Awkward as it might be, I'm ok entering the season with both Faulk and Skinner still on the squad if the alternative is a crappy trade return in a pre-season trade. Any notion of a Canes fire sale needed to be adequately squashed and I think we have done that. Sure we have assets we might be willing to trade, but we better be getting value back. Otherwise Skinner and Faulk still have spots on the roster, we don't HAVE to trade either one of them at the moment.

You want one of them? Pay up. I like it. What will be really awkward though is if we are in the playoff mix come the trade deadline and SKinner is still here, having a good season. At that point you have dug that hole for yourself....much harder to trade Skinner then and he will be able to walk as a UFA when the season is over.
 
Yeah. Agreed. I'm absolutely convinced that the Canes don't NEED to move Faulk at all, and that Skinner will be one of the best if not the best sniper available at the deadline. They'll get what they want for him eventually. There's absolutely no urgency to make a move for either if it doesn't make sense ... so, a decent center or forget it.
 
Hey, if Skinner is tearing it up at the deadline and we don't want to trade him, then his willingness to sign here to continue to play for a team and system that works for him is going to increase. If not, a red hot Skinner is going to bring you plenty back at the deadline... So yeah there's a risk but giving him away cheap now might get you some value to hedge against that but it would have to be a lot of value to offset the upside of keeping him even if that means we just get to the playoffs and have a servicable showing there.

As for being excited before BigK, I hear ya, however there was a lot of very optimistic excitement with the recent team - yeah if all these guys work out we might be OK. This year, our forwards are solid if young - we need a center but we're not totally overslotting 9 forwards. Our D should be very strong based on previous on ice performance, not paper. Goalie is still a big question... We also have a new owner, so there's a chance we make a move for someone expensive if the deal makes sense where in the past it was just no way no how. I think it's reasonable for relatively pragmatic fans to be optimistic at this point.
 
Looking back at all these posts above regarding Skinner and his potential value in a trade before the stinker trade went down today is just even more depressing now then when I first saw it!
 
Zykov-Aho-Teravainen
McGinn-Staal-Williams
Ferland-Necas-Svechnikov
Martinook-Rask-PDG

Wallmark

As I said in my earlier post, we are putting a HUGE amount of pressure on 3 rookies in our top 9. Even more so right now that Skinner is removed with nothing replacing him. Unless there is a big trade involving Faulk and assets going out and a true, legit, 25-30 goal scorer coming back, you are likely either asking our D and goaltending to be top 5 in the league OR our rookies to all be electric almost superstars right out of the gate.

SO seriously take all 12 of those forwards and lets realistically "best case" their goal scoring:

25-30-25
15-20-20
15-15-25
5-10-5

Add in 40 goals from the D. That is 250 goals. That includes 3 rookies (Zykov, Necas, Svech) scoring a total of 65 goals, which is a heck of a lot of faith. That would be a fantastic offensive year for this roster.

More realistic is that our 3 rookies combine for 50 goals and Ferland is not quite that good.

20-30-25
15-20-20
10-10-20
5-10-5

And the 40 from the D. That is 230 goals. 20th in the NHL, right around were we were this past season. The D and goaltending would have to be exceptional to make the playoffs with that little goal scoring. If you are wondering about that '40 from the D...yeah, even that might be a stretch. I'm keeping Faulk and going

15 Hamilton, 10 Faulk, 5 Pesce, 5 Slavin, 5 TVR+Fleury

Could Zykov score 30? Could Necas score 20? Could Svechnikov score 40? Can Turbo and Aho score 70 combined? Effectively the success of our season is going to hinge on a lot of young players on our roster accomplishing things they have NEVER accomplished before. If those 13 forwards are really our 13 to start the season, the removal of Skinner suddenly makes what was going to be a big lean on our 3 top rookies already become a huge lean. They need to be great, immediately, or we are cooked. Not exactly the safest approach considering how questionable the goaltending is.

I want to buy the hype on Svech in a really bad way...have him be the unstoppable sniper, Kucherov type superstar that Skinner wasn't. I want Necas to be that shifty skilled burner out there like a Gaudreau or a Marner. I want Zykov to be that rock in front of the net potting 30 goals every year like....JVR, Wayne Simmons? How confident are we that any of that will happen? We hit the jackpot on Aho, but we need a couple more jackpots to get back into the playoffs.
 
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