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Late Summer Canes Roster Talk

Did anybody think that with the amount of retooling and uprooting this roster needed we’d be a playoff team this year? I certainly did not. Maybe Brindy gets them to gel early on and the team starts to roll. Could happen. More likely we see an inconsistent team that plays well for stretches, shows its potential, and then has some growing pains. I just want to see real progress in both player and team development, something we haven’t seen for years. If we make the playoffs, bonus. When the kiddie corps is 2-3 years in, then I want this to be a consistent playoff team. Presumably that will also coincide with a goalie upgrade. Whether that’s Darling 2.0 or someone else, who knows.


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bagopux said:
Did anybody think that with the amount of retooling and uprooting this roster needed we’d be a playoff team this year? I certainly did not. Maybe Brindy gets them to gel early on and the team starts to roll. Could happen. More likely we see an inconsistent team that plays well for stretches, shows its potential, and then has some growing pains. I just want to see real progress in both player and team development, something we haven’t seen for years. If we make the playoffs, bonus. When the kiddie corps is 2-3 years in, then I want this to be a consistent playoff team. Presumably that will also coincide with a goalie upgrade. Whether that’s Darling 2.0 or someone else, who knows.


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Even now, if they can find a center ... on the roster or from elsewhere ... to do any kind of job at all on the first line, then this is a team that can compete for 8th. No better than that, mind you. Now, the likelihood of that happening without another player move is not great and my faith in the front office’s decision making at this point is about as low as it gets. And if I’m brutally honest, I’m not sure the management of this team even know they need at least one more NHL center. They certainly act like it’s no big deal. It’s a big deal. Carolina got their collective asses handed to them down the middle of the ice all last season, yet they’ve managed to get even younger and even smaller down the middle. And look, young and small was a problem LAST YEAR, yet somehow here we are with your best scoring winger playing center and a talented teenage coat rack holding down another line. One of these things is fine. Both of them at the same time is irresponsibly optimistic.

As we sit right now I think the upside for this team is 8-12 in the East. We’re just going to find yet another different way to draft 7-10th.
 
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cmaleski2 said:
The Canes management I guarantee you expects this to be a playoff team this year.
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Then this paying customer suggests they start building a suitable roster to do that. This is currently a classic “if everything goes well” sort of group. Guess what? Everything goes well maybe once out of twenty years and we already burned that one back in 06.
 
The canes now have a center. Po is a center.
By the way, anyone know if he’s bringing the bag of pucks with him or are they being shipped separate?
What about sticks.
 
Po is a center.
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And so is Wallmark and Roy and maybe Saarela. We didn't need a #9 center, we need an NHL #2 center at a minimum.

Here are a few numbers on Pu.

* He was 12th in the OHL in points last season
* He was 8th in the OHL in points the season before
* He was 8th in the OHL in assists last season
* He was 9th in the OHL in PPG (13) last season
* He was 2nd in the OHL in Faceoff% (62.0%) last season. That was on 941 draws (which is plenty to say he was good)
* He was 3rd in the OHL in Faceoff% (60.4%) the season before. That was on 1231 draws

The kid is a legit center with faceoff skills. So there is that if you are looking for some potential hidden upside on Pu.

You can read some thoughts about Pu pre-draft here:

https://thehockeywriters.com/clifford-pu-the-next-ones-nhl-2016-draft-prospect-profile/

That was when he was 18....he was being called a pass first defensive center. Possibly several years down the road he is a 3rd line or 4th line shut down center without the complete lack of skill that Marcus Kruger showed last season (or Kent Manderville showed every season). We will see how that faceoff% plays against men in the pros, but that is a good sign if his path to the NHL is as a defensive center.

So I will take back my calling Pu a 'nothing' prospect and upgrade him to a 'meh' prospect.
 
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Possibly in a couple of seasons. Pu probably is better suited for the 4th line center role than Rask (or Wallmark) is.
 
jeffbear said:
Even now, if they can find a center ... on the roster or from elsewhere ... to do any kind of job at all on the first line, then this is a team that can compete for 8th. No better than that, mind you. Now, the likelihood of that happening without another player move is not great and my faith in the front office’s decision making at this point is about as low as it gets. And if I’m brutally honest, I’m not sure the management of this team even know they need at least one more NHL center. They certainly act like it’s no big deal. It’s a big deal. Carolina got their collective asses handed to them down the middle of the ice all last season, yet they’ve managed to get even younger and even smaller down the middle. And look, young and small was a problem LAST YEAR, yet somehow here we are with your best scoring winger playing center and a talented teenage coat rack holding down another line. One of these things is fine. Both of them at the same time is irresponsibly optimistic.

As we sit right now I think the upside for this team is 8-12 in the East. We’re just going to find yet another different way to draft 7-10th.
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I agree JB, if everything goes great for the Canes, maybe they will be scratching for that last playoff spot and 8th in the East at best. Between the goaltending questions, the lack of a true front line center, and the dependency of all these young kids providing the offense is a recipe for disaster yet again. Sadly, this team could very well be in the lottery mix yet again and that playoff drought reaching a decade and climbing.
 
cmaleski2 said:
And so is Wallmark and Roy and maybe Saarela. We didn't need a #9 center, we need an NHL #2 center at a minimum.

Here are a few numbers on Pu.

* He was 12th in the OHL in points last season
* He was 8th in the OHL in points the season before
* He was 8th in the OHL in assists last season
* He was 9th in the OHL in PPG (13) last season
* He was 2nd in the OHL in Faceoff% (62.0%) last season. That was on 941 draws (which is plenty to say he was good)
* He was 3rd in the OHL in Faceoff% (60.4%) the season before. That was on 1231 draws

The kid is a legit center with faceoff skills. So there is that if you are looking for some potential hidden upside on Pu.

You can read some thoughts about Pu pre-draft here:

https://thehockeywriters.com/clifford-pu-the-next-ones-nhl-2016-draft-prospect-profile/

That was when he was 18....he was being called a pass first defensive center. Possibly several years down the road he is a 3rd line or 4th line shut down center without the complete lack of skill that Marcus Kruger showed last season (or Kent Manderville showed every season). We will see how that faceoff% plays against men in the pros, but that is a good sign if his path to the NHL is as a defensive center.

So I will take back my calling Pu a 'nothing' prospect and upgrade him to a 'meh' prospect.
Click to expand...

I mean ... he's a 3rd round pick level prospect. So, I'm open to shifting from "nothing" to "not much" ... "meh" might be one notch too high.

Here's the thing ... Pu slots where in our organizational depth chart at center? Assuming either Saarela or Hallmark (dammit) make the big club, he's STILL behind one of those guys, Kuokkanen, Roy, Poturalsi and Brown. Not to mention there's upwards of three other guys on that roster who are at least options at center. He'll be lucky to even make the roster in Charlotte.
 
This season will be great. As long as Svechnikov, Necas and Zykov are the top three finalist in voting for Rookie of the Year.

Plan the parade! Make sure it swings by Marbles, you know, for the kids.
 
We'll all feel better when either Panarin or Pacioretty get plugged into the vacated LW slot. :sarcasm
 
OK ... with WRAL and the NandO either hinting or outright saying that another move before Camp is either unlikely or not happening, I think we can collect ourselves and get down to the business of looking at roster possibilities. And honestly, like CM I'm struck cold in the face with the sheer number of rookies we're going to end up with in our probable 13 man forward group. Plus, you're taking Aho off the wing where he's a proven producer and putting a TON more responsibility on the guy at center. And not just the position change ... they've got the guy centering the first line.

Let's review ...
Zykov .... likely 1st line wing
Necas ... almost certain 3rd like center
Svechnikov ... probable 3rd line wing
Wallmark ... probable extra forward

That's 30% of your forwards without a single full season of NHL experience .... between them. At least the two Russian kids have NHL bodies because the other two barely cast a shadow. In addition to that lot, you're also breaking in two other new forwards in Ferland and Martinook. Both are energy guys, so that shouldn't be too difficult but you're still looking at fully 46% of your probable forward group was playing somewhere else last season. There's nothing especially seasoned behind them either. Saarela, Kuokkonen, Foegele, maybe Maenalanen .... collectively they've managed less than ten NHL games, although Maenalanen has been in the big boy league in Finland for a few years. Heck, that makes him a old man in this lot.

Defense .... yeah. Fine. With Faulk staying that takes the pressure off of Fleury a bit, and the top 4 of Hamilton, deHaan, Slavin and Pesce is solid. But the inexperience up front is going to put pressure on those guys to score goals. A fair number of goals. And really only two of them have that arrow in their quiver.

Goal ... God help us. Still, it's got to be better than last year. At least a little bit better.

I'm revising us down to 10th-12th in the East. It's tempting to say, at that point .... just go ahead and "lose for Hughes" but it looks like Montreal, Phoenix and maybe Buffalo are ahead of that curve. If we are mired in the middle of the Eastern also rans by trade deadline day though, I'd definitely say trade what you can and chuck ALL the kids into the fray. May as well get that learning curve out of the way quickly instead of whatever the heck we were doing with Zykov last year. If we would have played that guy in heavy rotation the entire second half of the season, I absolutely guarantee we wouldn't have finished any lower ... or probably any higher either ... and he'd have been much better prepared for his probable role in 18-19.

Bottom line ... barring a near miracle year from multiple rookies and newbs or a big time trade that better evens out the forward lines, I'm calling this year 10 with no playoffs.
 
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Metro is still a tough division in that Pittsburgh and Washington haven't aged out yet and begun their painful rebuild, although the Rangers seem to finally be there. Probably Philadelphia rounds out the top three givens for the playoffs as I doubt we can out-point them...but, hey, stuff happens, so we'll see.

Therefore, as seemingly always, it's a dogfight for the wild card spots to be first-round fodder for the "haves". Probably Tampa, Boston, and Toronto there as it falls off fast in the Atlantic after those three.

So maybe the Metro can claim both wild card spots. But that puts us in a wrestling match with Columbus, NYR, and maybe even NJ for the Metro wild card with perhaps only Detroit capable of making a run for the second wild card spot and edging out a complete Metro takeover of both spots.

Hard to see such a young team with no real leadership from the "vets" to keep them on the straight and narrow path it will take to treat those head-to-head match-ups with your wild card rivals as "playoff" games during the season and to keep an eye on the points standings the entire season and NOT just after the All-Star break.

So although capable of being playoff fodder I'm not confident we will even be that good this season. Surprise me.
 
Yeah with all the chatter about moving Skinner, I at least assumed another NHL forward in the mix and ideally a center. Never thought we'd send him packing without anyone coming in to fill a roster spot...

From an optimistic standpoint:

1. We have a defense that is capable of being leaned on and it should be one of the top D corps in the league.
2. Our forward mix is young and lacks experience, but the combinations should work better as we have more offensive talent to mix in and more size and grit.
3. The forward leadership is pretty clear I think, and it's the kind of guys you want in that role.
4. We have enough talent among the kids that if they catch fire, they have the potential to be very good and very exciting.
5. Rask... We know he has talent. Can Brindy get it out of him. He shows up this year and it makes us look a lot better, and none of us seem to be expecting that at all.
6. Darling isn't looking over his shoulder at Cam... as if that was his problem last season...
7. We won't have to see that smug grin from BP after the games in the pressers.

I'd be so much more comfortable with a veteran center even if he's a legit #2 over slotted into 1C
 
Lots of risk in that lineup, but I'm happy that we (seem) to have eradicated a big portion of the old core---that was rotten and mired in a culture of complacency.
 
Luke’s take on scoring. The players we got rid of by trade or release totaled 75 goals. The players coming in (Ferland, Hamilton, de Haan, Martinook) totaled 46. Then add Necas and Svechnikov (and Zykov). Aho and Teravainen combined for 52, Staal and Williams combined for 35. We should get that from those pairs again. If we get bounce back years from Rask and Faulk, we should have enough goal scoring. Darling and Mrazek have to stop the puck.

https://mobile.twitter.com/lukedecock/status/1025469227027841024
 
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