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The Will Nye Contract Dispute thread

Slavin has been a #1 dman for years. Toughest matchups, every game.

Dougie and Werenski have been distant #2/3 dmen on their teams.

Hell, dougie has been dumped by 2 teams already, and isn't setting the world on fire on his 3rd.


the only thing those 2 bring over Slavin might be PP production (though we don't even know that for sure), but our leafs don't need another pp dman.
 
slavin's the only one of the three that has actually been his team's #1 dman, for the record.

that includes this year, where even on mostly the same pairing as dougie, Slavin is getting 3+ minutes more ice time, and tougher quality of competition .

Because he’s stronger defensively. Weaker offensively. Since when do we trade elite skill for less than that?
 
Slavin has been a #1 dman for years. Toughest matchups, every game.

Dougie and Werenski have been distant #2/3 dmen on their teams.

Hell, dougie has been dumped by 2 teams already, and isn't setting the world on fire on his 3rd.


the only thing those 2 bring over Slavin might be PP production (though we don't even know that for sure), but our leafs don't need another pp dman.

And Carolina has sucked the whole time. Not to say it’s his fault or anything, but he hasn’t exactly been the top guy on a good team.

I do accept the last part of what you said. We’re not hungry for offense. And we should add a defensive minded dman for sure. I just don’t like the value exchange being proposed here.
 
Last 2yrs + This Year

Slavin (24): 23:03 (19:17es, 0:56pp, 2:50sh), 32pts pace (26es, 4pp)
Rielly (24): 21:56 (18:32es, 1:43pp, 1:40sh), 50pts pace (31es, 19pp)
Gardiner (28): 22:00 (19:22es, 2:17pp, 0:20sh), 47pts pace (33es, 13pp)
Werenski (21): 21:37 (18:19es, 2:42pp, 0:49sh), 45pts pace (28es, 17pp)
Dougie (25): 20:34 (17:27es, 2:27pp, 0:39sh), 45pts pace (33es, 12pp)


Last Year + This Year

Slavin (24): 22:43 (19:12es, 0:56pp, 2:36sh), 30pt pace (26es, 3pp)
Rielly (24): 21:44 (18:18es, 2:19pp, 1:07sh), 66pt pace (36es, 30pp)
Gardiner (28): 22:22 (19:56es, 2:05pp, 0:21sh), 50pt pace (36es, 14pp)
Werenski (21): 22:33 (19:05es, 2:37pp, 0:51sh), 42pt pace (28es, 14pp)
Dougie (25): 21:37 (18:11es, 2:36pp, 0:28sh), 41pts pace (30es, 11pp)



trading for werenski or dougie, when neither would even crack our PP, and when their coaches don't even trust them in top defnesive matchups or on the PK, seems to make much less sense than trading for a top-end matchup dman and PKer, who pretty much matches their offense at even strength anyways.
 
And looking at those comparisons, he doesn’t match their ES stats. They get 1-2 minutes less ES time and still beat him. Hamilton by a lot. Put Hamilton on Rielly’s right side and imagine what happens.

And again, Werenski is just in his third year. He’s going to get a lot better and is far more skilled.
 
Worse than what? Getting a top pair dman like Slavin, Trouba, Hamilton or Werenski is one of the few deals that actually makes sense for Nylander. I wouldn't deal him for less than that. If you have multiple offers for top pairing dman on the table then sure, take your pick.
 
Unfortunately corsica is a bit broken so I can't include this year in the splits, but here's the top-10 dmen by opponents' ice time at even strength over the last 2yrs, and how they've done on average possession (cf/xgf), minimum 1000min.

1.Vlasic (A+): 50.4%, -2.2rel
2.Braun (A+): 49.0%, -4.3rel
3.Rielly (A): 50.8%, +0.1rel
4.Letang (A-): 54.3%, +3.2rel
5.Keith (A-): 49.2%, -1.8rel
6.Giordano (A-): 54.9%, +5.8rel
7.Hainsey (A-): 49.9%, -1.1rel
8.Chara (A-): 53.7%, -0.8rel
9.Dumoulin (A-): 52.1%, +0.6rel
10.Slavin (A-): 54.5%, +3.8rel

I like these numbers because they point out some obvious things - like Braun should not be getting those matchups. Or like Keith/Hainsey/Chara are too old to be getting that kind of duty anymore. Or like the fact that Rielly handles super-elite competion better than most.

and of course, Slavin handles that kind of elite usage better than most anyone.

Slide Slavin into Hainsey's spot and you may be looking at the best 2-way defense pair in hockey.

others:

27.Hamilton (B+): 55.3%, +7.0rel
51.Jones (B+): 51.9%, +0.9rel
70.Werenski (B): 52.2%, +1.4rel

Hamilton and Werenski both put up very nice possession numbers too, but the question mark here is why do they rank so much lower than their main defense partners in both quality of competition and ice time? I would wager those extra shifts come at the toughest parts of the game - like end-game shutdown situations.
 
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Worse than what? Getting a top pair dman like Slavin, Trouba, Hamilton or Werenski is one of the few deals that actually makes sense for Nylander. I wouldn't deal him for less than that. If you have multiple offers for top pairing dman on the table then sure, take your pick.

Worse in the sense that I think there’s a difference between those names. They’re not equal.
 
Unfortunately corsica is a bit broken so I can't include this year in the splits, but here's the top-10 dmen by opponents' ice time at even strength over the last 2yrs, and how they've done on average possession (cf/xgf), minimum 1000min.

1.Vlasic (A+): 50.4%, -2.2rel
2.Braun (A+): 49.0%, -4.3rel
3.Rielly (A): 50.8%, +0.1rel
4.Letang (A-): 54.3%, +3.2rel
5.Keith (A-): 49.2%, -1.8rel
6.Giordano (A-): 54.9%, +5.8rel
7.Hainsey (A-): 49.9%, -1.1rel
8.Chara (A-): 53.7%, -0.8rel
9.Dumoulin (A-): 52.1%, +0.6rel
10.Slavin (A-): 54.5%, +3.8rel

Slide Slavin into Hainsey's spot and you may be looking at the best 2-way defense pair in hockey.

others:

27.Hamilton (B+): 55.3%, +7.0rel
51.Jones (B+): 51.9%, +0.9rel
70.Werenski (B): 52.2%, +1.4rel

Hamilton and Werenski both put up very nice possession numbers too, but the question mark here is why do they rank so much lower than their main defense partners in both quality of competition and ice time? I would wager those extra shifts come at the toughest parts of the game - like end-game shutdown situations.

What do these stats mean when Hainsey is ranked seventh?
 
It means Hainsey has been given the 7th toughest quality of competition in hockey the previous 2yrs, which is probably too much to ask of him at this point.
 
Worse in the sense that I think there’s a difference between those names. They’re not equal.

Clearly, but preferring one over the other does not make Slavin any less of an elite defenseman. And unless you have multiple offers on the table for elite defensemen, whether there are better defenseman in the NHL than Slavin is completely irrelevant.
 
If Carolina has already offered up slavin, I would push for more.
They're first rounder for next season would be interesting. It could be a lottery pick.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder ..... maybe the hurricane absolutely love willie and see him in a brian burke way. Gotta have em even if I have to overpay to get him.

If they dont want to go that far, then screw it .... let nylander sit for the season.
The team is doing great, getting Matthew's will only help.
Short term help could be an option for this season if he sits all year. The extra money saved could be used for this purpose.
 
Clearly, but preferring one over the other does not make Slavin any less of an elite defenseman. And unless you have multiple offers on the table for elite defensemen, whether there are better defenseman in the NHL than Slavin is completely irrelevant.

Then getting a player who is a level down from Slavin doesn’t make that guy any less elite or valuable either, I suppose.
 
Well you are not getting Morgan Rielly for Nylander.

We aren't getting Slavin either.....really don't think Carolina considers moving him. You read Carolina reporters take on it, and they very clearly lay out that Slavin is the top rated guy internally and they aren't remotely considering trading him.


Jaccob Slavin a defenseman there I don’t believe they are willing to part company with. I think they view him as their best defenseman. They don’t want to trade him. - Bobby Mac.


Shame too, Slavin is the ideal get...it's probably the one logical swap that would all but guarantee we win a Cup.
 
Slavin is already a more valuable player than Nylander ....add to that he's on an obscenely team friendly contract, and it's lunacy to think the Canes would need to add to get a deal done.

If they offer Slavin we take it and run....and use the savings to lock up Kap/Dermott.
 
It's no problem, Carolina can keep him and look elsewhere for a top line forward.

it's really more about what the Leafs want if a trade is being made right now.
 
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