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GDT: Canes v. Islanders 10/4 7:00

So the message from the Canes players are Roddy last night seemed to be that they played like they want to play, but just didn't win and the expectation is that if they play that way all of the time they are going to be good.

It would be easier to buy that of course if we didn't see these results too often. This one wasn't on the goalie though, so that is one difference. Also you can see the Canes have significantly ramped up their puck pressure by a lot. Once we got into the zone it looked the same as recent years. Not a lot of open looks. Not a lot of really dangerous scoring chances. A whole lot of shots blocked (22 officially for the Isle, the Canes had 8). A whole lot of blocked passes. Not a great deal of flash and creativity.

Now that is game 1, so hopefully things get better. The only 'wow' moment I had with the 5 rookie forwards last night was that wrist shot that Svech rang off the post. That shot release and the speed of that shot looked elite to me. I'm hoping that Brindy carries through with his lament that Svech didn't get enough ice time. He didn't, especially considering we were behind for a lot of the game. I love Foegele's game, I really do. But I don't love it enough to give him 14:38 of Even strength ice time to Svech's 9:38.

The other thing I'm a bit worried about? I know that Ferland played a great deal with Monihan and Guadreau in Calgary (a large part of how he scored 21 goals last season). I'm a bit concerned that he isn't the right 'other winger' for the Aho/Teravainen pairing. He is going to have to sell me on that because I thought he looked out of place last night with those 2.

And yeah, no Dougie Hamilton AT ALL on the PP? I like Slavin, I think he could be good at the point on the PP (he has been when presented that opportunity). But not if its between him and Dougie Hamilton. Heck if we just must have Slavin on a PP unit, have Hamilton replace Faulk, not be shut out of the mix.
 
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We still need a center and that's not going to change. Teams that win are strong down the middle...
 
cmaleski2 said:
So the message from the Canes players are Roddy last night seemed to be that they played like they want to play, but just didn't win and the expectation is that if they play that way all of the time they are going to be good.

It would be easier to buy that of course if we didn't see these results too often. This one wasn't on the goalie though, so that is one difference. Also you can see the Canes have significant ramped up their puck pressure by a lot. Once we got into the zone it looked the same as recent years. Not a lot of open looks. Not a lot of really dangerous scoring chances. A whole lot of shots blocked (22 officially for the Isle, the Canes had 8). A whole lot of blocked passes. Not a great deal of flash and creativity.

Now that is game 1, so hopefully things get better. The only 'wow' moment I had with the 5 rookie forwards last night was that wrist shot that Svech rang off the post. That shot release and the speed of that shot looked elite to me. I'm hoping that Brindy carries through with his lament that Svech didn't get enough ice time. He didn't, especially considering we were behind for a lot of the game. I love Foegele's game, I really do. But I don't love it enough to give him 14:38 of Even strength ice time to Svech's 9:38.

The other thing I'm a bit worried about? I know that Ferland played a great deal with Monihan and Guadreau in Calgary (a large part of how he scored 21 goals last season). I'm a bit concerned that he isn't the right 'other winger' for the Aho/Teravainen pairing. He is going to have to sell me on that because I thought he looked out of place last night with those 2.

And yeah, no Dougie Hamilton AT ALL on the PP? I like Slavin, I think he could be good at the point on the PP (he has been when presented that opportunity). But not if its between him and Dougie Hamilton. Heck if we just must have Slavin on a PP unit, have Hamilton replace Faulk, not be shut out of the mix.
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They played a Barry Trotz team with not a lot of offense beyond Barzal and Bailey. Until Uncle Lou can bring some offensive reinforcements in, I think the Isles are going to resemble Lamoriello's Devils teams.

Foegele is a good fit on Staal's line, I don't think you can swap him and Svechnikov. I think the more likely scenario is to see him with Necas, which is why I thought their pairing at rookie camp was going to stick.

One other thing; our passing is still abysmal. Necas had 2 opportunities to split the dmen at the blue line but had to reach back to gather in a pass and lost all his momentum. Too many passes were behind or in the skates.
 
Disappointing to lose to a team that on paper, we should beat. Period. We generated tons of offensive (most were easy shots to block), but we were lacking net presence most of the game. I like our quick passes, but many were taps to no one and quite a few ended up on the Isle's sticks. I think our inability to score really encouraged the Isles and they seemed to get better as the game went on, particularly in front of their goaltender, who played great. At least we got a point. I'm not upset, but we'll need to see real improvement or this season will start looking like the rest of them over the past decade.
 
As someone has already mentioned, still too many "bombing from the defense" shots that are easy to block/stop/clear. A few great glimpses on the PP from Svech with his shot as well as a few slick/fast passes he made, but still relying on Faulk to bomb from the point with no bodies in front.
 
OK ... caveat that I haven't read anybody's comments before posting this. If I repeat anyone's thoughts or step on toes, my apologies but I'm BUSY and I've got a wedding to go to fairly shortly. Now ...

My takeaway in a nutshell ... we're awfully young all over the lineup and it shows. Trotz has a bunch of not so talented guys on that Islanders roster, but those guys can all play that soft trap of his and the majority of their roster has a fair amount of experience playing a similar system. And yeah, Carolina looked disorganized on the rush and looked a bit lost for long stretches and took too many hopeful shots from distance and weird angles ... but honestly, they lost the game in the neutral zone because NYI trapped us into scramble mode for the vast majority of the game. There's a reason that the relatively veteran line with Staal and Williams didn't look nearly as clueless as those third and fourth lines led by children ... because they know full bloody well what you have to do to gain the zone against that kind of amorphous trap. Aho's line managed to get by on pure speed at times ... again, because you can do that against the soft pressure.

Bottom line ... the Isles did a better job of imposing their style on the flow of the game, by which I mean they sapped the game of every hint of flow. Carolina did a less good job of pressing the Isles into engaging with numbers which is what should happen in this system against a trap team. And again, my takeaway is that the only real solution to that matchup problem is experience. NOBODY runs their negative flow trap in the pre season the way they do when actual points are on the line, so this is really the first time the kids have seen this kind of soft but stubbornly clogged up defensive setup in a game that matters. They fought with the beast, but only managed to harm it in desperation time near the end. Fine. Learn lessons, move on. At least they didn't come out and outright suck in the opener like so many Canes teams have done before them.

Criticisms ... Brindy waited too long to shake up his lines. Ferland is not as natural a fit on that Aho line as I thought and it would have been nice to have seen something else at some point. I'm just about as fond of Pesce on the left side as I was when he's played there before ... as in, not. And TVR doesn't give you enough to make up for getting 75% of Pesce's game. Again ... maybe try something else. When you're down late and you've got a kid with Svechnikov's shot ... use him on a line with somebody else that has some skill. Please? All in all, it was fine. I'd just like to see Brindy steal another page from Laviolette and mix and match the combos a bit when stuff isn't working.
 
Goal Posts aside, the Islanders had the better chances and our D was in scramble mode way too often. And with 3 seconds to go in the game you just cannot jab your stick in the other guy's skates. Bad mistake by Ferland and Rod was none too happy about it on the bench. Take the point, learn something and move on.
 
JFG said:
Goal Posts aside, the Islanders had the better chances and our D was in scramble mode way too often. And with 3 seconds to go in the game you just cannot jab your stick in the other guy's skates. Bad mistake by Ferland and Rod was none too happy about it on the bench. Take the point, learn something and move on.
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Yeah. Dumb penalty to be sure.
 
jeffbear said:
OK ... caveat that I haven't read anybody's comments before posting this. If I repeat anyone's thoughts or step on toes, my apologies but I'm BUSY and I've got a wedding to go to fairly shortly. Now ...

My takeaway in a nutshell ... we're awfully young all over the lineup and it shows. Trotz has a bunch of not so talented guys on that Islanders roster, but those guys can all play that soft trap of his and the majority of their roster has a fair amount of experience playing a similar system. And yeah, Carolina looked disorganized on the rush and looked a bit lost for long stretches and took too many hopeful shots from distance and weird angles ... but honestly, they lost the game in the neutral zone because NYI trapped us into scramble mode for the vast majority of the game. There's a reason that the relatively veteran line with Staal and Williams didn't look nearly as clueless as those third and fourth lines led by children ... because they know full bloody well what you have to do to gain the zone against that kind of amorphous trap. Aho's line managed to get by on pure speed at times ... again, because you can do that against the soft pressure.

Bottom line ... the Isles did a better job of imposing their style on the flow of the game, by which I mean they sapped the game of every hint of flow. Carolina did a less good job of pressing the Isles into engaging with numbers which is what should happen in this system against a trap team. And again, my takeaway is that the only real solution to that matchup problem is experience. NOBODY runs their negative flow trap in the pre season the way they do when actual points are on the line, so this is really the first time the kids have seen this kind of soft but stubbornly clogged up defensive setup in a game that matters. They fought with the beast, but only managed to harm it in desperation time near the end. Fine. Learn lessons, move on. At least they didn't come out and outright suck in the opener like so many Canes teams have done before them.

Criticisms ... Brindy waited too long to shake up his lines. Ferland is not as natural a fit on that Aho line as I thought and it would have been nice to have seen something else at some point. I'm just about as fond of Pesce on the left side as I was when he's played there before ... as in, not. And TVR doesn't give you enough to make up for getting 75% of Pesce's game. Again ... maybe try something else. When you're down late and you've got a kid with Svechnikov's shot ... use him on a line with somebody else that has some skill. Please? All in all, it was fine. I'd just like to see Brindy steal another page from Laviolette and mix and match the combos a bit when stuff isn't working.
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Great point on Pesce...he should never be on the left side, and frankly I like him best paired with Slavin where they both compliment each other. TVR is nothing special, and I hope Fleury gets more of a chance to play in his spot, what bugs me most about TVR is he simply is not physical, and when you are placed on a third pairing, you need to be physical or at least do something well, because you are not counted on for offense.

I thought deHaan was solid all night, he was a nice addition to the defense and will get lots of minutes against top lines.
 
Wasn't a big fan of the top line. Aho showed speed, but Tuevo was absent all night, IMO. That line needs a mix up. I'm sure Turbo and Aho get it going, but last night they didn't.

Faulk was a mistake machine last night. Hopefully that improves if he's staying.

Hamilton was glaringly absent from the power play. Will need to improve overall.

Mrazeck wasn't bad. But not confidence inspiring either.
 
goalie pull at 3 mins was their plan but they won't do that for every game. I suppose the pull time depends on who they play and the style of play.
 
That, 3 minute goalie pull was one of many things that have me flashbacks to ugly BP hockey.


Yes, by now it's obvious that I watched the game. The GF isn't going to let me give up on them. Still not at all happy about the green uni nights though.
 
CanadaCanes said:
Great point on Pesce...he should never be on the left side, and frankly I like him best paired with Slavin where they both compliment each other. TVR is nothing special, and I hope Fleury gets more of a chance to play in his spot, what bugs me most about TVR is he simply is not physical, and when you are placed on a third pairing, you need to be physical or at least do something well, because you are not counted on for offense.

I thought deHaan was solid all night, he was a nice addition to the defense and will get lots of minutes against top lines.
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I won't say Pesce should NEVER be assigned to the left side. Just that, if you're going to reduce his effectiveness like that, it should be for a better reason than to swap TVR in for Fleury if TVR is going to play like limp toast like he did last night. He was meh at best, and had some truly awful shifts.
 
I was hoping Pesce and Fleury would be something that works out. Fleury wants to contribute on offense while Pesce covers for him similar to how I hope de Haan covers for Faulk.

It makes sense to me on paper. Where the do not actually play the game.

If we are going to ever pull some kind of D for C trade, I believe Pesce, and not Faulk, is going to be the ask. Of course they will want Slavin, to which I say, No thank you! (Think Robin Williams doing a Queen Elizabeth impersonation)
 
TheBigKahuna said:
Fire the analytics guys! ; )

Yes, it worked. But the % isn't good.
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I'm pretty sure the analytics are looking at the outcomes. So the % would be optimized... Keep in mind, it's the timing of pulling the goalie that gives you the best chance to win. So it probably increases your chance of winning by X% and may increase the other teams chance of scoring an empty netter by more than X. So it doesn't feel good because you probably give up an extra goal more often than you win.

I was encouraged by the fact that we controlled the puck when we pulled the goalie compared to our last year model where we pulled the goalie and gave up an odd man rush in the first 15 seconds half the time.
 
cmon3 said:
I was encouraged by the fact that we controlled the puck when we pulled the goalie compared to our last year model where we pulled the goalie and gave up an odd man rush in the first 15 seconds half the time.
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Wait that's not the best way to pull the goalie?
 
cmon3 said:
I was encouraged by the fact that we controlled the puck when we pulled the goalie compared to our last year model where we pulled the goalie and gave up an odd man rush in the first 15 seconds half the time.
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That is the big difference to me. This group controls the puck FAR better than last year's group.

It did indeed seem like mere seconds before an errant pass or a takeaway along the boards would lead to an odd-man rush the other way with an empty-netter as their reward.

But this bunch...they can actually pass the puck to one another...AND win one-on-one battles.

Whatever the statistics say, the chances of success are certainly greater when you can actually execute the plan.
 
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