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OT: The Toronto Blue Jays

If Shatkins is not prepared to do what is necessary to compete this off season, and I do not think they are, I would prefer them to just sell off and rebuild.

None of this half assed attempt to compete and sadly, I think that is going to be the approach.
 
MapleLeafBlueJayBoy said:
If Shatkins is not prepared to do what is necessary to compete this off season, and I do not think they are, I would prefer them to just sell off and rebuild.

None of this half assed attempt to compete and sadly, I think that is going to be the approach.
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Especially with the Yankees and Angels getting the 2 biggest movers of the off-season, and the Red Sox presumably doing something like bringing in JD Martinez, this is definitely a "shit or get off the pot" off-season. We need to bring in a couple solidly above-average OF and a pitcher, or else we should be selling Donaldson. The Cards are desperate to make a move, and I don't want them to deal for Longo/Beltre/Machado leaving us with nobody left who needs a 3B.
 
UWHabs said:
Especially with the Yankees and Angels getting the 2 biggest movers of the off-season, and the Red Sox presumably doing something like bringing in JD Martinez, this is definitely a "shit or get off the pot" off-season. We need to bring in a couple solidly above-average OF and a pitcher, or else we should be selling Donaldson. The Cards are desperate to make a move, and I don't want them to deal for Longo/Beltre/Machado leaving us with nobody left who needs a 3B.
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Bring in a legit OF and solid #3 starter and then sign Donaldson to an extension.
 
If you are not expecting to compete in the near term there is not much point signing Donaldson (even though he is fun to watch).
 
If Josh Donaldson was 25 or 26 years old, then I'd be all for signing him long-term, even if they won't be competitive for a bit.

But the guy just turned 32 years old.

So with the team's competitive window being closed for the foreseeable future...I don't think you have any choice here. You have to trade him.

Though I don't really have any faith that Shatkins will manage to get a good return for him even if they do trade him this off-season.
 
LeafGm said:
If Josh Donaldson was 25 or 26 years old, then I'd be all for signing him long-term, even if they won't be competitive for a bit.

But the guy just turned 32 years old.

So with the team's competitive window being closed for the foreseeable future...I don't think you have any choice here. You have to trade him.

Though I don't really have any faith that Shatkins will manage to get a good return for him even if they do trade him this off-season.
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The return won't look good because he only has one year left on his deal, but if they do decide to deal him, they'll get a decent enough offer back from the Cards. But it's going to be something like Carpenter/Gyorko + Grichuk/Piscotty, plus maybe a prospect, which looks ugly when you're selling someone of Donaldson's talent.
 
They should have trade Donny last season. Now, if we do trade him, especially in season, the return is diminished.

But, I doubt we trade him. Shatkins needs to fill dem seats.
 
LeafGm said:
If Josh Donaldson was 25 or 26 years old, then I'd be all for signing him long-term, even if they won't be competitive for a bit.

But the guy just turned 32 years old.

So with the team's competitive window being closed for the foreseeable future...I don't think you have any choice here. You have to trade him.

Though I don't really have any faith that Shatkins will manage to get a good return for him even if they do trade him this off-season.
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how did bautista and ee do at ages 32 33 34 35 36?
 
zeke said:
how did bautista and ee do at ages 32 33 34 35 36?
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JB: 4.3, 6.5, 4.5, 1.5, -0.5 WAR (16 WAR total in 5 years)
EE: 4.5, 3.9, 2.5, X, X (10.9 in 3 years)

So yeah, if you think you're signing JD in his one and only chance at free agency for about 150/5, he'd probably roughly be worth his contract. But you're not getting JD for that price - to sign him right now, you're going to have to give him 35 a year, around 5/175, or add in a 6th year. Sure, those might be fine for the first 2-3 years of the deal, and at the very least by the time the contract is underwater, you're likely out of the Tulo and Martin deals.

It's not the worst thing in the world, depending on what exactly you lock him down for, but it really depends on what you're looking for. If you think the window is the next 2-3 years, then it's a good deal for that. If you think it makes more sense to punt the next couple years and regroup for when Vlad+Bo are ready to contribute, then it would be a horrible deal.
 
Even so, I think with the state of the rest of the team, you have to trade JD.

There's almost no point to even play this year.
 
UWHabs said:
Well, Zips says that we can likely be in the mix for the 2nd wildcard. That's still very different from actually being there with the big boys.
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If they can make a legit run at a wildcard, I say add some pieces and go for it.

Just don't trade any of the the upper prospects (which they won't).

Extend Donaldson. He will be good for at least 3 more seasons.
 
Blowing our brains out to possibly scrape into the second wild card spot, and then immediately get demolished by a real baseball team.

Sounds like exciting stuff.
 
LeafGm said:
Blowing our brains out to possibly scrape into the second wild card spot, and then immediately get demolished by a real baseball team.

Sounds like exciting stuff.
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almost as exciting as the days where we'd linger on the periphery of the WC race until mid-summer, then fade spectacularly before making a last-gasp run at respectability.
 
LeafGm said:
Blowing our brains out to possibly scrape into the second wild card spot, and then immediately get demolished by a real baseball team.

Sounds like exciting stuff.
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There is enough talent on the Jays roster that they can win against some teams. But there's 0 chance of them winning a WS with the way the current roster is built.

The more I think about it, if we are trying to build this "murky middle" team, I'd like to see us continue to be creative with deals. Some possibilities (give or take some extra cash either way)
-Trade Morales to Texas for Choo + Profar: unloads the dead weight of Morales for the dead weight of Choo, but Choo can at least get on base and maybe sometimes play the field. Profar gives a former top prospect as another IF/OF guy to fill in for injuries.
-Trade scrubs to the Yankees for Ellsbury + Clint Frazier: Ellsbury would give us the LH OF bat we need, and could hit leadoff. Would basically be about us "buying" Frazier, giving us potentially another good prospect who can still be cheap once Vlad+Bo are ready, and while Ellsbury is way overpaid, he's not a long term albatross.

Assuming we don't really want to give up prospects, these would be ways to essentially just use money to bring in younger valuable players. Yeah, neither get us a real bat for the lineup, so we still have that problem, but would at least be a little bit of creative thinking.
 
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