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OT: The Toronto Blue Jays

CaptainBolduke said:
So in nutshell they've done nothing and some are OK with it. Fair enough I guess.
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Never said I was happy about it. They've done nothing great, but nothing terrible either, really. Would have loved to see them more aggressive the last few years to actually make a serious push at things.

And then this year, they've done a great job with the depth moves. Solarte/Granderson/Diaz have been solid enough pick-ups. Of course, the flaw is that they're not great players, so don't really do enough to push the team into a legit playoff team. And with the Donaldson FA looming, this was kind of the year that you either want to push in or fold. If they let Donaldson walk for nothing, then I'm going to be hella pissed. But at least those depth moves showed some sense, and if Stroman/Sanchez and the rest of the starting rotation actually been as good as they could have been, then the team would be in that fight for a playoff spot.
 
CaptainBolduke said:
Dead serious question that I have been racking my brain over trying to answer:

During on the 3-4 seasons that Shapiro/Atkins have been here (hired halfway through 2015), what major mark have they put on this team? We are most definitely at a point where we can critically analyze these guys.

Their major signings have been Kendrys Morales and Jamie Garcia (apparently Happ was signed by LaCava). Both those guys suck and make real money. Hernandez is a nice hitter, but hardly a major mark on the franchise.

What am I missing? I must be missing something.

If they finish 4th or 5th in the division will real rumblings start, or do they have a 8-10 year lifeline?
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What did you expect them to do honestly . AA ripped up the farm for a 1-2 year quick , albeit exciting run .

They take over a team in soon to be decline with bad contracts , old and slow .

Prospect pool minus a few studs is terrible.

They didnt mortgage the future and picked up Solarte and others at fair money .

This is as close to what Shanny had to work with when he took over .
 
GEEMAN said:
What did you expect them to do honestly . AA ripped up the farm for a 1-2 year quick , albeit exciting run .

They take over a team in soon to be decline with bad contracts , old and slow .

Prospect pool minus a few studs is terrible.

They didnt mortgage the future and picked up Solarte and others at fair money .

This is as close to what Shanny had to work with when he took over .
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This is a really bad post, but I guess I will respond. Nearly all of this is wrong.

The farm was never ripped up. Outside or Noah, none of the guys AA traded became anything. They had a legit chance to win it all in 2016, but Shaprio did nothing - they won the ALDS that year despite Shapiro.

The Jays currently have a top 10 farm system and many of the top guys are still AAs players.

Blaming AA for Shapiro for doing nothing for nearly 4 years is an annoying argument.
 
The prospect pool is one of the best in baseball, just a couple years after AA left - and built largely on AA's prospects still.

and none of the guys he traded have amounted to anything worthwhile, aside from one guy who he traded 6-7 years ago.
 
Jays having a nice game today. Despite their recent struggles, they made it through a really tough stretch of their schedule around .500.

Hopefully they can string some wins together again over the next few weeks.
 
CaptainBolduke said:
This is a really bad post, but I guess I will respond. Nearly all of this is wrong.

The farm was never ripped up. Outside or Noah, none of the guys AA traded became anything. They had a legit chance to win it all in 2016, but Shaprio did nothing - they won the ALDS that year despite Shapiro.

The Jays currently have a top 10 farm system and many of the top guys are still AAs players.

Blaming AA for Shapiro for doing nothing for nearly 4 years is an annoying argument.
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Cmon your losing it ....he took over in August in 2015 not even close to 3 years .

He took over after AA blew his brains out for 2 year quick fix and ripped the prospect pool.

In 2015 the prospect pool was brutal. The team peaked had its fun and was soon to be in decline .

The team was old, slow , with bad contracts .

The decline was inevitable. What the hell did you expect him to do in 2 -2 1/2 years , pull Trout and Harper out of his ass .

We didnt have Judge , Sanchez , Nunez or the studs Boston had in their pipeline or on their roster ....not even close .

Pillar was the only developed position player we had in a decade .

We have very few tradeable assets to do what the Yanks did when they dumped stars at the deadline and acquired stud prospects .

He didnt trade Vlad or Bichette for a quick fix or a proven vet . He did ok this summer with timely moves .

Your way of base with this assessment .
 
GEEMAN said:
Cmon your losing it ....he took over in August in 2015 not even close to 3 years .

He took over after AA blew his brains out for 2 year quick fix and ripped the prospect pool.

In 2015 the prospect pool was brutal. The team peaked had its fun and was soon to be in decline .

The team was old, slow , with bad contracts .

The decline was inevitable. What the hell did you expect him to do in 2 -2 1/2 years , pull Trout and Harper out of his ass .

We didnt have Judge , Sanchez , Nunez or the studs Boston had in their pipeline or on their roster ....not even close .

Pillar was the only developed position player we had in a decade .

We have very few tradeable assets to do what the Yanks did when they dumped stars at the deadline and acquired stud prospects .

He didnt trade Vlad or Bichette for a quick fix or a proven vet . He did ok this summer with timely moves .

Your way of base with this assessment .
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what prospect not named Noah did AA give up that we should regret?
 
AA made the right deals at the right times. But the fact still remains that he traded a shitload of prospects, and this was one of the oldest teams in the league and on the decline with a thin farm system. Yes, they should have been more aggressive when they got here and the EE/Kendrys "swap" was a terrible move, although Edwin is definitely on the decline and everyone should understand the desire to get younger.

They've done a decent job building up the farm system on top of the guys inherited from AA. Not signing Price to that ridiculous contract was the right move, as were the Pittsburgh Liriano and Teoscar deals. It hasn't been all bad by any means.
 
Wayward DP said:
what prospect not named Noah did AA give up that we should regret?
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Its not the point , our prospect pool was terrible in 2015/2016.

Keith Law a very respected ESPN MLB analyst had us ranked 25th at the end of 2016 . Combine that with a slow aging roster we werent going anywhere.
 
axlsalinger said:
AA made the right deals at the right times. But the fact still remains that he traded a shitload of prospects, and this was one of the oldest teams in the league and on the decline with a thin farm system. Yes, they should have been more aggressive when they got here and the EE/Kendrys "swap" was a terrible move, although Edwin is definitely on the decline and everyone should understand the desire to get younger.

They've done a decent job building up the farm system on top of the guys inherited from AA. Not signing Price to that ridiculous contract was the right move, as were the Pittsburgh Liriano and Teoscar deals. It hasn't been all bad by any means.
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Excellent post , we did a decent job in the 2 1/2 years Shats took over with limited assets to work with .

He resisted trading Bichette for Yelich or other prospects for more vets .
 
GEEMAN said:
Excellent post , we did a decent job in the 2 1/2 years Shats took over with limited assets to work with .

He resisted trading Bichette for Yelich or other prospects for more vets .
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Yeah, that's kind of where I was going before - Shatkins haven't done anything really stupid in their time here (although a Bichette for Yelich deal was still a very interesting option). The worst move was Morales, but that's just a waste of 30M, and not a long-term hampering of the club.

The biggest complaint is that they're overly cautious - they seem unwilling to make the big moves that AA did. Would have loved to see something for the 2016 season to try to improve the team, instead of simply keeping the same team. But they did do well last year when they fell out of it to at least recoup some value (and got very lucky with Teoscar being a lot better than expected). Of course, it still sucks to have to be in that place last year, and again this year. The big questions this year is if we stay around this .500 mark, are they still comfortable enough to sell off? It seems unlikely to make the playoffs, but it's only 3.5 games right now.
 
GEEMAN said:
Its not the point , our prospect pool was terrible in 2015/2016.

Keith Law a very respected ESPN MLB analyst had us ranked 25th at the end of 2016 . Combine that with a slow aging roster we werent going anywhere.
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And yet now it’s ranked much better and the top guys are mostly holdovers from 15/6. So maybe they were just unserrated or law was overreacting to the trades AA made?
 
GEEMAN said:
Its not the point , our prospect pool was terrible in 2015/2016.

Keith Law a very respected ESPN MLB analyst had us ranked 25th at the end of 2016 . Combine that with a slow aging roster we werent going anywhere.
Click to expand...

And yet now it’s ranked much better and the top guys are mostly holdovers from 15/6. So maybe they were just unserrated or law was overreacting to the trades AA made?
 
It seems unfair to me that AA gets 100% of the credit for drafting certain guys, but Shatkins gets zero for developing the guys they inherited.
 
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